Delvert - GOH - Rupprecht

[krycha101]

Hi everyone

I am Polish historian who have been writing a book about Flanders campaign in 1917 for several years.

Most British books I have read (except for Edmonds and Bean) completely lack of German and French point of view. I wonder if anyone could help me. Does anyone have electronic copies of these items?:

German Official Account Bd XIII (Der Weltkrieg von 1914 bis 1918 Bd XIII) - at least chapters concerning the Flanders campaign

Delvert, Les opérations de la 1ère armée dans les Flandres (1920)

Rupprecht, Mein kriegstagebuch Bd 2 (1929) - at least chapters about the campaign

Les Armees francaises dans la Grande Guerre Tome V vol II - chapters concerning offensive in Flanders

I could pay a reasonable price

my e-mail krycha101@poczta.fm

PS. Are there any modern books (in English or French) describing the battle of Ypres 1917 from the French perspective?

Best regards

[bob lembke]

krycha;

I think no on all counts, which is why you have heard nothing. The Der Weltkrieg 1914 bis 1918 Band 13 is very, very rare, and a copy of the book would be very expensive (probably 200 Euros or more, I suspect), but it is possible that someone may, at some time, put it on a CD. Not anytime soon.

True, until a while ago it seems that few writers working in English tended to use foreign-language sources, but that certainly has changed.

Bob Lembke

[Robert Dunlop]

Kronprinz Rupprecht's book has entries for 3 & 23 September; 4, 19 20 and 21 October 1917. Eleven pages in all. I don't have the ability to scan the pages. No possibility of transcribing them for you either, at present. Sorry. But I am happy to check the entries in response to a specific question.

Robert

[krycha101]

krycha;

I think no on all counts, which is why you have heard nothing. The Der Weltkrieg 1914 bis 1918 Band 13 is very, very rare, and a copy of the book would be very expensive (probably 200 Euros or more, I suspect), but it is possible that someone may, at some time, put it on a CD. Not anytime soon.

True, until a while ago it seems that few writers working in English tended to use foreign-language sources, but that certainly has changed.

Bob Lembke

Yeah, most of books contain in their "bibliographies" both "der Weltkrieg bd 13" and "les armees francais" but actually none of them really reffer to those books. As a result we have monographies about Passchendaele campaign seen mostly trough British eyes. (Prior & Wilson, McCarthy, Warren, Steel & Hart, Macdonald).

Fortunately Edmonds and Bean quote german sources abundantly. But even Edmonds fail to show a French point of view. This perspective is completely neglected.

[Take on me]

Fortunately Edmonds and Bean quote german sources abundantly. But even Edmonds fail to show a French point of view. This perspective is completely neglected.

I found that in Anthony Clayton's Paths of Gory, about the French Army during the 1914-18 war. I can only remember him devoting a few lines to the Ypres campaign.

Jon

[bob lembke]

I have been actively researching WW I for about five years, and I have used German, Austrian, English, Australian, New Zeeland, American, French, Italian, Slovene, and Flemish sources, and am (with great pain) attempting to translate some Turkish. I have not used French sources as much as I would have liked, and two reasons come to mind.

First of all, if I am researching a German source, I have two important tools to find material. I often attempt to look up the source in the on-line catalog of the Deutsche Bucherei Leipzig, the German state library that specializes in pre-1945 materials. I have seen them state that they have everything ever printed in German (I doubt this, but they do have an awful amount of material). A warning; not all WW I material is currently in the electronic catalog, although more is added as time goes on.

Likewise, if I am looking for a US source, I use the on-line catalog of the Library of Congress, the largest US library, or the catalogs of 5-6 other major US research libraries.

Another tool is the major used book location services; abebooks.com for English, and ZVAB for German material.

However, the French do not seem to have such tools; at least that is the opinion of my wife, who might be classified as an international librarian at a major research library. As we speak she is poking at this question, but that is her current opinion. She is a great book sleuth.

A second problem: My wife's library has a collection of about 100 or more of the French official histories, a wall of them, enormous books. I probably have not tried as much as I should have, but I have found them of rather little help. These books record the transcripts of hundreds and thousands of orders, telephone calls, etc., but don't seem that helpful. I am interested in a fight at Verdun where there was a major German flame thrower attack, which in about half an hour captured an entire brigade, including the three headquarters (one brigade, two regimental). You can read this mass of French material and not really have much of an idea of what was going on, even if you know what happened from other (mostly German) sources. A few messages, no mention of the entire brigade being captured, with about 2880 prisoners. Was this typical, or were they reluctant to have this fiasco discussed?

I should put more time into these sources, but so far I have found them rather dense and not very useful. I can read the French well enough.

So, I have not generally found using French materials that easy. I have bought a number of French secondary sources, and have found them useful, but I am trying to work with primary sources, and (cautiously) official histories. Additionally, in my area of particular interest, flame throwers, the French, who had a large program in that area, were enormously secretive.

Bob Lembke

[Hoplophile]

You can find electonic copies of many French regimental histories on this site. These histories are far too short for my taste, but often contain details that can't be found anywhere else.

http://cecile_meunier.club.fr/historiques/index.htm

You can also buy electronic versions of German regimental histories, which tend to be much longer, from this site:

www.Military-Books.de.vu

[Hoplophile]

Another good source is the Schlachten des Weltkriegs series, which consists of monographs about particular campaigns.

A number of copies of the "Flandern 1917" volume are on sale at ABEBooks.

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResu...rn+1917&x=0