Gunner Bailey Posted 8 August , 2006 Share Posted 8 August , 2006 Latest find from the Somme. French Lebel Officer's 8 mm pistol (Model d'Ordnance). Thought I'd share this with the forum as I think it's unusual. The pistol is a relic, rusted solid, though the chambers are clear. It has no cartridge cases in it. The dent in the trigger guard and the position of the hammer pose questions. Was it being used in hand to hand fighting when it was lost? Was the dent caused by a piece of shrapnal or a German helmet? Comments / speculation and guesswork appreciated. Otherwise - enjoy! Gunner Bailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willywombat Posted 8 August , 2006 Share Posted 8 August , 2006 Pure speculation but would this type of pistol have a "half cock" position instead of a safety catch, in which case perhaps it was lost with the hammer in that position? Secondly, without wishing to sound unromantic regarding the dent, may I suggest a ploughshare? Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 9 August , 2006 Share Posted 9 August , 2006 Excellent, excellent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 9 August , 2006 Share Posted 9 August , 2006 I wouldn't think a revolver would have a 'safety' when in any cocked position, half or otherwise. The safest place for the hammer to be is completely down. It's also a 'Hollywood' fantasy that you pull a revolver's hammer back with your thumb before pulling the trigger - there's no need! The hammer automatically cocks and falls as the trigger is pulled. I also think the damage has probably been caused postwar. Why would the owner have it completely unloaded if in a location likely to require it's use. Unless of course he was interrupted whilst reloading. Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lassuy Posted 9 August , 2006 Share Posted 9 August , 2006 The Model 1892 Ordnance revolver has no half cock notch. Interesting that the hammer is in this position, perhaps there was something wrong with the lock work when it was lost? By the way, these are nice little pistols, very well made and accurate. The only handicap is the tiny 8mm cartridge, not much power there. The 1892 was a double action revolver, it could be fired deliberately by pulling the hammer back to full cock, or by simply squeezing the trigger if you are in a hurry. Just using the trigger, though, makes for some less than accurate shooting, as it pulls much harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson Posted 9 August , 2006 Share Posted 9 August , 2006 How close to the surface was it found ? Roland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 9 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 August , 2006 How close to the surface was it found ? Roland. Sadly I didn't find it myself so I can't answer that. I bought it from an part time military dealer in a street market. We spent a while haggling over an overpriced 1908-1915 Cavalry sword and I made him an offer on the pistol that he took, probably to get rid of me! I think the damage to the trigger guard has locked the trigger in place as the trigger was being pulled. The dent does not seem to be later plough damage. Also the tip of the trigger is hard against the bent guard. Lots of questions about how this came to be. Gunner Bailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24225978 Posted 9 August , 2006 Share Posted 9 August , 2006 I wouldn't think a revolver would have a 'safety' when in any cocked position, half or otherwise. The safest place for the hammer to be is completely down. It's also a 'Hollywood' fantasy that you pull a revolver's hammer back with your thumb before pulling the trigger - there's no need! The hammer automatically cocks and falls as the trigger is pulled. 'Half cocked' is safe. Operation of the trigger will not allow the hammer to fall. To lower the hammer it needs first to be drawn back to full cock. Most revolvers of the period that Hollywood portrays in Westerns were single-action i.e. they required a manual cocking of the hammer. As an aside, most double-action revolvers can be used as single-action but it massively reduces trigger-pressure, often to unsafe, very light pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willywombat Posted 9 August , 2006 Share Posted 9 August , 2006 The top strap doesn't look very straight either. Could it be that the tine of a plough caught the trigger guard and sandwiched the pistol between it and a large stone or something. In so doing the trigger guard could have deformed, putting pressure on the trigger, causing it to move backwards and thus move the hammer a little? In my experience, trigger guards are pretty strong and it would be very difficult to deform one by whacking it against even the most hard-headed hun's steel helmet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyHollinger Posted 9 August , 2006 Share Posted 9 August , 2006 This reminds me of a shrapnel ball I took from a gopher at Vimy ... it has a dent ... Unloaded pistols are of little use ... I would suggest either the owner expired while loading - whereupon the cylinder would be open OR the pistol was buried in the back yard during WWII, to keep from the kids or after killing Uncle Jean (the one who gets too drunk on Bastille Day and makes passes he shouldn't ... you know the one ... I suscribe to the plowshare, yard digger theory ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willywombat Posted 9 August , 2006 Share Posted 9 August , 2006 Now... if only we could find the matching German helmet...... or maybe a very elderly German with a sore head...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 9 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 August , 2006 Now... if only we could find the matching German helmet...... or maybe a very elderly German with a sore head...... Thanks for everyone's comment serious and funny. Having examined the pistol closely I'm sure the trigger guard deformation is contemporary with the pistol being lost. The rust pattern shows no later and thinner rust pattern, the same goes for the top strap, that is a little distorted. This may have been straightened out by the inital finder. I also think this was dug up some years ago and the rust has stabilised and is no longer 'live'. This has been kept somewhere, perhaps in a collection or a collector's 'spares' box. We'll never know. I would have loved to have unearthed this in my French garden or in a field of battle. I suspect that is came from the French front on the Somme, but we'll never know. It is clear to me though, that this is a true battlefield relic (well I hope so!). Gunner Bailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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