"On point" or "post". Where did the phrase origina

[steve fuller]

Hi Pals

Any ideas please? WW1?

Cheers

[IanA]

Can you put the words into sentences so that we can see the context? For example, are you talking about something like an 'Observation Post' or O.P.?

Ian

[Jim Strawbridge]

My thoughts.

"On point" depends whether you are moving or stationary. If moving, then it is the sharp end of a V as it moves forward on an attack or reconaissance. The sides of the V are looking for attack from "the wings" but the point is the most vulnerable and likely to stumble into an enemy held area. If stationary, then the term is likely to come from the police force. As vehicles became more popular (and before traffic lights) policemen were placed at some very busy junctions on "point duty". In effect they just stood there and directed traffic by pointing.

Post is the need to be placed in a set position probably originally designated by a post. For instance, a post box, would be a box set in an immovable place attached to a post. Similarly, a sentry would be set in a single position and not expected to move from it until relieved of duty.

[steve fuller]

Hi guys

Yes, along the lines Jim is thinking.

If, for example, an assault or trench raid takes a position and a small squad is posted in advance of the main body whilst they consolidate (along a comm's trench for example), the squad may be referred to as an OP but more likely as being on post, or at a stretch, on point.

Its only a technicality but a conversation recently has had me browsing the texts i have for a reference, which has left me more unsure than I was originally!!! What I have read is pretty inconclusive which led me to wondering whether the phrase was really from WW1 or not

[IanA]

Hi Steve,

To my mind 'O.P.' or observation post has a very specific meaning. It would be a position with a good field of view, usually as heavily camouflaged as it could be, where an officer could direct artillery fire. I can't think that you would use the term in the context of a raid.

I have not seen the use of 'point' in the form which you suggest but I could understand its use. I would have thought that the idea pre-dated WW1. Didn't U.S. cavalry use the term 'riding point'? I knew my childhood Saturday mornings at the pictures weren't wasted!

Ian

[steve fuller]

Ian

The "point" phrase does appear to be a US term doesnt it. Band of Brothers used the term a few times, which were of course modern day air cavalry I suppose ...

Perhaps a temp position is purely an advanced post and had no specific / adopted name then?

[IanA]

Why ponder these things when we can go to the fount of all knowledge? I consulted Haking's 'Company Training' (1915) and did not see the word 'point'. I did see 'outpost company' and 'vanguard' so I think these are the terms which ought to be used.

Ian

[steve fuller]

Cheers Ian, if its not in there, then it cant have been used in the great war really, so that will do for me!

[delta]

I recall that, on the drill square. officers were directed to take post; ie to stand in their proscribed positions in respect to the rank and file. This broadly meant that the OC stood to the centre of the squad, three paces to its front (perhaps the origin of the US phrase "front and centre").

Taking point is also used in the field; being the leading soldier in a tactical formation - this was not the place for the commander to be as this invididual tended to be the first to make contact with the enemy.