Happy Valley/Death Valley

[AndyL]

Hi, could someone please tell me where it is, is it soth, east or north of Mametz Wood. Is Flatiron CWG located there. Many thanks

[John_Hartley]

17/Manchester's battalion history records Happy Valley as being "off the Bray - Albert Road". The Battalion was withdrawn to camp here after 1/7/16.

18/Manc's account refers to it being "about 2 miles from Bray".

Of course, there may be more than one Happy Valley.

John

[Terry Carter]

I believe it was known as 'Happy Valley' in the Welsh Dragon Memorial area and known as 'Death Valley' as you continue along the track towards Flat Iron Copse Cemetery.

Terry

[Ken Lees]

Death Valley is shown in an aerial photo in Lyn Macdonald's "Somme" as being between the 38th Div Memorial & Flat Iron Copse, but there is a Happy Valley mentioned by EHG Roberts in his "The 9th King's in France" in which he says "the Battalion left Mericourt for what was known as "The Happy Valley," outside Bray".

[AndyL]

Thanks for that, I'll consult my maps

[robertsim]

According to Martin Middlebrook the "official" Happy Valley was a deep curving valley just north of Bray Vale Cemetery, meaning this was the only one shown on army maps and used in official accounts of the war. The other Happy Valley runs from the SW to NE along the eastern* side of Mametz Wood to the 38th (Welsh) Division Memorial where it branched into two, SE along Caterpillar Valley (still known as Happy Valley) and continuing NE up to Flatiron Copse and the battlefields, the latter was then called Death Valley.

I walked the latter route recently up to High Wood and I can recommend it as a visit, we started off from Dantzig Alley cemetery and cut up to the track and then walked along to High Wood and Longeuval, fantastic weather helped but there's a lot to see. Another theory about the Happy/Death Valley names was it entirely depended which way you were headed, quite understandable!

*corrected on re-reading, never trust me with the compass!

[KIRKY]

According to Gliddon, Death Valley was between Montauban and Longueval! He also mentions the Mametz Wood one as well!

Can anyone tell me exactly where the Montauban /Longueval one was sited?

Tony

[robertsim]

Looking at a map I would say that it probably refers to the same one that is close to Mametz Wood, distance wise it's only a mile or so from Montauban to the Welsh Memorial and is headed on the same axis, i.e. SW to NE directly into the centre of the "Horsehoe of Woods"

[johnaylett]

Photo shows Death Valley running up past the Hammerhead of Mametz Wood on the left. The original German second line ran just in front of Bazentin-le-Petit Wood in the background.

[dycer]

This is a quote from the 8th Royal Scots(Pioneers to the 51st Highland Division and may help you to orientate.(July/August 1916)

"The Battalion reached Mametz Wood on the early morning of the 21st July 1916,and there bivouaced.The Billets of the Battalion were continually shelled,and the only approach to the line was up "Happy Valley"."

During this period on the Somme the Battalion "cut the new trench from "High Wood" to the windmill,worked on "High Alley" and began "Thistle Alley"."

I do not have access to Trench Maps from the period but from the references above is it possible to locate Happy Valley?

George

[johnaylett]

"The Battalion reached Mametz Wood on the early morning of the 21st July 1916,and there bivouaced.The Billets of the Battalion were continually shelled,and the only approach to the line was up "Happy Valley".

I think that Happy/Death Valley was one of the main routes up to the front in this area as it was not under direct observation. The Germans knew this of course and it was shelled regularly.

Moving up through Death Valley. The destroyed Bazentin-le-Petit Wood in the background.

[dycer]

I think that Happy/Death Valley was one of the main routes up to the front in this area as it was not under direct observation. The Germans knew this of course and it was shelled regularly.

Moving up through Death Valley. The destroyed Bazentin-le-Petit Wood in the background.

John,

Re indirect observation,

The History I quoted from earlier records

Happy Valley-"The enemy took special delight in shelling this valley,and in addition,had his barrage lines across it."

I am not a gunner but would suggest the Artillery knew the location of the valley and had the guns ranged for the shells to land there as this was the main way of access to the front line.

The History continues.

"Time and again,but for the judicious and skilful handling of the troops,the Battalion might have been completely wiped out."

There is also a distinction between the above and work.

"While at work,the Battalion was subjected to very heavy shell and machine-gun fire every night-----"

Gives a whole new meaning to the word commuting

George

[Ian Riley]

Just to add confuse things, the map recording the action at Guillemont (August 1916) in McGilchrist's history of the Liverpool Scottish shows the area immediately (200m) south of Trônes Wood marked as 'Death Valley'. His maps seem to be based on trench maps supplemented with additional information from battalion sources. His text refers to Death Valley as being 'behind' the wood. He describes his Death Valley as running up (ie going NE) between two small hills to just behind the front line and as being the only means of approach to the trenches. Neither the war diary nor the commanding officer's personal notes make any mention of Death Valley and I have not found any reference in Wyrall's King's Regiment History in the context of August 1916. Wyrall's maps show Hooge Alley, Scottish Alley and Scottish Trench in the area that McGilchrist indicates as Death Valley. UnfortunatelyI can't check my trench map CD as it is packed into my car boot: I intend to be exactly at this location on Thursday and leave tomorrow!

I suspect that there are several Death Valleys.

[johnaylett]

I am not a gunner but would suggest the Artillery knew the location of the valley and had the guns ranged for the shells to land there as this was the main way of access to the front line.

Yes, this makes sense. The Germans would have known the topography very well as it was originally behind their front line.

I suspect that there are several Death Valleys.

I think names were quite often duplicated. I believe, for example, that there were several Crucifix Corners ( I think I remember reading a thread about this on the forum).

There's a reference to the Death Valley at Guillemont on the Irish Times website. "Guillemont, by now a half-empty warren of crumbling dugouts and cellars held by a few hundred German troops, stood on high ground and could only be approached across a bare valley that had come to be known as "Death Valley". Responsibility for leading the assault fell to the two battalions belonging to the Division's 47th Brigade - the 7th Leinsters and the 6th Connaughts."

[jdajd]

Here is another pic from a few weeks ago taken from the Welsh Memorial. Flat Iron Copse is the large clump of trees in the center and Mametz Wood is immediately on the left.

[Kathie]

I have only today found Happy Valley for which I have been looking as it was where the South Africans first spent time on arriving in France in 1916. Thanks to my new CDs. They were in the valley just north of Bray.

However, I was interested in Johns photo - very evocative and informative. Showing the barren landscape after what had been going on but enough to show what it had been. John, can I ask how and where did you access this photo?

Kathie

[johnaylett]

The picture is a preview image from the Imperial War Museum online collection. Though the prints are quite expensive to buy (£7.50 +VAT +P&P) the previews are a useful resource in their own right and make fascinating viewing. Here's a link to the site. http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/qryPhotoImg.asp

[derekspiers]

I have recently viewed a pocket diary at the IWM research room.

It was written by a signaller attached to the 95th SB RGA and the entry for August 25th 1918 describes in graphic detail the scene in Happy Valley. It details the carnage wrought upon the Germans with many mutilated bodies on view some of which were squashed by vehicles.

The diary doesn't make clear where this particular Happy Valley is located but the unit were in Querrieu on Aug 8th and had advanced to Templeux le Churand by Sept 21st. it could therefore possibly be in the Bray area I suppose?