Adolphus F Tolfree

[tolfree24]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum, this is my first post.

I have a few questions about Adolphus F Tolfree's medal card.

He was a sapper in the Royal Engineers with number 332699 and in the Royal Engineers again with no rank stated and with number WR/508207. He received a Victory medal.

1) I understand that the WR is Waterways and Railways and that he was probably in the Waterways division because his occupation was a waterman and lighterman on his son's birth certificate. Can anyone tell me more about the Waterways division?

2) By writing his time as a Sapper first does this mean he was a sapper then transferred to WR?

3) Can anyone tell where he was stationed by his numbers? He must have served overseas but where?

4) There are swiggly lines that sort of look like joined up Ws in the British War Medal boxes so did he receive one?

5) There is no date on the card so is there any way to tell when he served?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Terry_Reeves]

Amy

I think you will find that he was entitled to both medals and that the lines represent "ditto" marks. The Royal Engineers recruited many lightermen and watermen for the Inland Water Transport to operate barges and tugs. The reason he has two numbers is that there was a number change around 1917. He certainly went overseas in 1916 or later, and probably entered the army in 1916. Where he served is problematic. He could have served in France or Belgium, Mespotamia, Egypt, or even Russia. The IWT operated in all these theatres. The only real way to find out is to see if his service record still surives at the National Archive.

Just out of interest, did he come from the London area? Many Thames lightermen were recruited into the IWT from that area.

Terry Reeves

[tolfree24]

Amy

I think you will find that he was entitled to both medals and that the lines represent "ditto" marks. The Royal Engineers recruited many lightermen and watermen for the Inland Water Transport to operate barges and tugs. The reason he has two numbers is that there was a number change around 1917. He certainly went overseas in 1916 or later, and probably entered the army in 1916. Where he served is problematic. He could have served in France or Belgium, Mespotamia, Egypt, or even Russia. The IWT operated in all these theatres. The only real way to find out is to see if his service record still surives at the National Archive.

Just out of interest, did he come from the London area? Many Thames lightermen were recruited into the IWT from that area.

Terry Reeves

Thank you for the information and for responding so quickly.

He was living in Greenwich at the time. Is there any way to find out if he was in WW2?

Thanks again.

Amy

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Sapper was a generic term for all Royal Engineer 'Private' soldiers,as Rifleman was for Light Infantry,Guardsman for Guards,Gunner for Royal Artillery men etc;

The fact he has no 'Star' is a good indication that he didnt serve overseas @ least,until after the start of 1916.

His Service Papers might survive ,it would be worth checking @ the NA if possible to see.

As far as service in WW2 goes,as NoK you may be able to access his Records for WW2 era,from the MoD Army Records Office {see 'The Long Long Trail' @ head of this site},if he served then as well,but they would need some evidence,such as Service Number{for WW2 era} & Unit.Would he have been of an age to serve then??

[tolfree24]

Sapper was a generic term for all Royal Engineer 'Private' soldiers,as Rifleman was for Light Infantry,Guardsman for Guards,Gunner for Royal Artillery men etc;

The fact he has no 'Star' is a good indication that he didnt serve overseas @ least,until after the start of 1916.

His Service Papers might survive ,it would be worth checking @ the NA if possible to see.

As far as service in WW2 goes,as NoK you may be able to access his Records for WW2 era,from the MoD Army Records Office {see 'The Long Long Trail' @ head of this site},if he served then as well,but they would need some evidence,such as Service Number{for WW2 era} & Unit.Would he have been of an age to serve then??

Thank you for your response.

He was born in 1878 so he would have been 61 in 1939. He died in the 1950s so he survived the war. Is there an upper age limit to serve?

Amy

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

He was born in 1878 so he would have been 61 in 1939. He died in the 1950s so he survived the war. Is there an upper age limit to serve?

Amy

At 61 he would have been past the normal age limits {I think around 38}for recruits for WW2{though as we know many 50 & 60 year olds served in WW1 @ the Front}Whilst he could have served,it is more logical that he would have served in a Local Defence Volunteers/ Home Guard {Dad's Army};ARP;{Air Raid Precautions} Fire watching,Fire Service,or other Civil Defence or,Special Constabulary role;or as a Lighterman have been involved in the London Docks??

[tolfree24]

Amy

At 61 he would have been past the normal age limits {I think around 38}for recruits for WW2{though as we know many 50 & 60 year olds served in WW1 @ the Front}Whilst he could have served,it is more logical that he would have served in a Local Defence Volunteers/ Home Guard {Dad's Army};ARP;{Air Raid Precautions} Fire watching,Fire Service,or other Civil Defence or,Special Constabulary role;or as a Lighterman have been involved in the London Docks??

Thank you for the help, I really appreciate it.

Regards,

Amy