German Soldier identification - Spring 1918

[Majordecor]

I've done a number of posts under different threads, without success.

I've copied and pasted two of them below in the hope that I can resolve an interesting thing involving two family members on opposite sides...

I refer to Bernhard Alfred RATAJCZYK, born 4.3.1895 and died 28 5 1980. He

> and his wife lived at 56 Burgstrasse, Lippstadt for many years and I knew

> them both.

>

> Herr Ratajczyk served with the German Army during the First World War and

> I have two photographs of him. He does not have any medal ribbons to help

> with the identification of his unit, but one of the photographs shows a

> group of soldiers standing in front of a makeshift building with two signs

> visible. One says "Gechaeftszimmer Division" and the other looks like

> "Campzimmer Kriegsgerichte".

>

> I am researching my late father in law who fought in both World Wars in

> the British Army. His wife (Inge) is still alive and lives with us. She is

> 80. Her husband was 32 years older that she was and they met after WW2

> when Colonel Major was Military Governor in Lippe-Detmold. She was his

> secretary and simultaneous translator.

>

> It happened that Inge's father and Inge's husband were of nearly the

> same age. Her husband fought in France between 1915 and 1918 and we

> believe that they were involved in battles very close to each other to do

> with the Kaiser's Spring Offensive, 1918 around Ypres.

>

> If it helps, Herr Ratajczxy won an Iron Cross (2nd Class) sometime during WW1.

>

> I would very much like to know as much as possible about Herr Ratajczyk's

> military career and hope that you can help in my research.

I should tell you that I got the following reply from Nat Archives in Germany...

Dear Mr. Major,

there was no "German army" in those times but armies of the German single states (except navy). I suppose that Bernhard Alfred RATAJCZYK belonged to the Prussian army. Military personal files of the Prussian army got lost during World War II, except military hospital records of wounded soldiers.

Regards

Im Auftrag

Klaus-D. Postupa

1. He was not an officer.

2. Do the two attached photos (see Forum posts) reveal anything?

3. He was born in Berlin, Neu-koelln 4 3 1895.

4. He lived there through WW1 until the early 1920's.

5. His Iron Cross was 2nd. class.

6. He was half-Polish.

7. His son-in-law (my late father-in-law), Lt. Col. AWC Major (MC and two bars, Order of St. George and Order of St. Anne with Crossed Swords), was of similar age to him.

8. The two fought against each other on the Western Front, we think around the time of the Kaiser's Spring Offensive. I know AWCM's locations 1915 to 1918. He was evacuated wounded 4 4 18.

9. AWCM's wife (Herr Ratajczyk's daugter) is 80 and lives with us. If there are any questions you want to ask to help in our search for her Dad's WW1 whereabouts, please ask.

10. In WW2, Herr R's parents had eight children. 6 died in childhood. Herr R and his one surviving brother were sent to the Eastern Front. The brother (Rudolph) was killed in action. His parents successfully petitioned the authorities that the one surviving child be transferred to the Western Front.

11. In WW2, Herr R. was sent to Poland (near Bromberg in the Polish Corridor) as a teacher (Hauptschullehrer). In 44/45, he did the march back to Germany between the advancing Russians and the retreating Germans. His group missed the last boat out of Gdansk (Danzig) - luckily, because it was sunk with all hands lost.

However, there may be another way of tracking down Herr R's unit.

1. He would have been in the Prussian Army being from Berlin, and

2. The group photo (with woundbadges dating from the time of the Kaiser's 21 March 1918 Spring Offensive) must date from then.

Incidentally, the right-hand sign hung on the building, the one that reads 'Campzimmer Kriegsgerichte' has the words on two lines with a logo of what looks like a stylised artillery piece in between.

Question: In a list of Divisions, would Guards Divisions be Prussian Guard Divisions?

Right, mum-in-law remembers that her father and husband were 'close together' in opposition to each other. I know in detail where her husband (AWCM) was at that time.

His unit details:

2 Suffolk Batallion=76 Brigade=3 Division=VI Corps=3rd Army.

2 Bt to battle zone on 12 March with HQ at Wancourt. 2 Bt @ 3 Div's extreme left with its left on Arras/Cambrai Road at Cavalry Farm. Took a hammering, with few losses, on 21 March with artillery and gas.

24 March. 9 Brigade relieved 76 Brigade. 2 Bt moved to old german trenches north of Neuville-Vitasse and dug switch line from Telegraph Hill to Ficheux.

27 March. Back to Wancourt.

Neuville-Vitasse proved to be the limit (in that sector) of the German advance. Battle of Wancourt is called Battle of Arras 1918.

30 March. 2 Bt. relieved by Canadian troops and went to Sombrin.

This action won AWCM his third Military Cross. It was thought at the time that he should have been 'in for a VC' but it was not witnessed. Citation reads:

On 4 April AWCM was evacuated to England. In August, he was sent to Archangel, Russia.

From N to S, the British Order of Battle was: 3 Army...XVII Corps...3 Div...34 Div. etc.

From N to S, in the same general area, the German Order of Battle was: 17 Army...XVIII Corps...VI Reserve Corps...XIV Reserve Corps etc.

In the three German Corps, the only Prussian units I find are:

FIRST LINE. 221 Div, 41st and 45th East Prussian regiments...234 Div, 451st, 452nd and 453rd Branenburg and Prussian Saxony regiments...3rd Guard's Div, Guards Fusilier regiment (Berlin)

SECOND LINE. 1st. Guard's Reserve Division.

Is there any possibility of finding out which unit Herr R was in?

Best regards.

Two pictures follow:

[bob lembke]

Hi;

To reiterate what I have noodled on this question:

1. You will not be able to identify a German regiment based on what British unit was "very close to each other", unless you have a specific date, and even then "very close to each other" probably won't work, as regimental frontages were on the order of a mile, with only one battalion in line at a time. Units were continually going into and dropping out of line.

2. There is a lot of info in the group photo; we have pulled some out, but there is more to tease out. a) As several men seem to be wearing wound badges, the photo is spring 1918 or later, unless those are other decorations. B. Due to only one man wearing a Muetze (cap), although several seem to be privates, all but one of them are wearing visored caps, which privates owned but could not wear at the front. (Question - How far behind the lines were visored caps allowed? Germany? There must have been a regulation, being Germans.) c) It seems to be a divisional (or higher) level office. The signs suggest a divisional orderly room and a military court room. d) The officer in the front middle seems to be wearing Litzen, which probably means that he is or was an officer in a Guard's unit. Note that it is a pair of horizontal bars, one over the other. Three men, including Bernhard, in the second row is either wearing collar Litzen (lace) or some sort of white rectangle. I can't see the seperate bars on these three collars that Litzen should exhibit. Also, several men seem to have some sort of white band about their caps, about 1 1/2" wide. I have looked at thousands of such photos, know a good deal about German uniforms, and don't recognize these bands. Are these related to the rectangles on the collars? e) As the men are clearly far behind the front, and are wearing uniforms in good condition, probably as they seem to be bureaucrats, if this was a Guard's unit more men would be wearing Litzen. So this is probably not a staff from a Guard's unit. There are many people who know much more about German uniforms than I do. Chime up!

If someone knowing a lot of these questions chimes in and says, for example, that this clearly is a division's legal staff, we still do not know what division. You need another clue. I bet Berlin produced, say, 150 or 200 regiments. If Bernhard came from a small town, you would almost automatically know his regiment, if he were infantry.

Bob Lembke

[Majordecor]

Dear Bob,

Once again, thanks.

Herr R. was a teacher, & was born in Neu-Koelln which, I think, was a suburb of Berlin.

My trawl through the loft yielded no new photos, I'm afraid, but I have a pristinely tidy loft for the first time!!!

In the sign saying military court room, between the two lines is a stylised picture of an artillery piece pointing to the left. Does that help?

My best to you and spousal unit

George.