Unknown headstones

[Matt Dixon]

For some years I have been collecting photos of " A soldier of the great war", "Two soldiers of the Great War" etc headstones.

The most I have found on one headstone is "Eight soldiers of the Great War" in Cement House cemetery, Ypres.

Has anyone out there seen one with more on, and if so have you got a photo you can let me have!

Thanks

[CROONAERT]

Matt.

How about this one.... Thirty, all killed Dec.1914. This is in Irish Farm Cemetery.

[CROONAERT]

....or this one in Hooge Crater Cemetery. Quite a thought provoking "several"...

Dave.

[Terry Denham]

I seem to remember one to fifteen unknown soldiers also in Hooge Crater Cemetery

[CROONAERT]

I seem to remember one to fifteen unknown soldiers also in Hooge Crater Cemetery

There is, Terry. If I remember correctly, it's not too far from the one I've pictured above. I have a photo of that one somewhere. Where ,I don't know. i'll post it when/if I find it.

Dave.

[Hedley Malloch]

The vast majoirty of the dead buried in each CWGC cemetery in Gallipoli are unknowns. I seem to recall that each cemetery has a single plaque or headstone commemorating them.

Are we discussing CWGC cemeteries or do any other nationalities come into the frame?

Which cemetery has the greatest number of unknowns and which the highest proportion?

[AOK4]

IIRC the Buttes New British Cemetery (in Polygon Wood) has the largest percentage of unknown graves, I guess Tyne Cot Cemetery must have the largest absolute number of unknowns...

Jan

[Terry Denham]

Of course, there are a few cemeteries in the CWGC list with 100% unknowns - Westminster Abbey for one!

I know, that's not what you meant but the percentage is misleading as it is the total number that is significant.

[Terry Denham]

Cabaret Rouge is also high on the list with 5000 unknowns out of 7600.

[Sue Light]

Off topic a bit, as this one at Aveluy wood is not high in number, but I always feel the mason might have been having a bad day - it has no religious symbol, and no 'Known unto God' - it just says:

'A Soldier of the Great War

10th November 1918'

and then right at the bottom, almost as an afterthought:

'Also a Soldier of the Great War'

Regards - Sue

[Roy Evans]

What became of the mass graves prepared for 1st July 1916. These would have contained many unknowns. Would each man subsequently get his own headstone?

Roy

[Terry Denham]

Roy

When practical CWGC prefer each body to have its own headstone.

However, sometimes this is not possible as the remains of several men may be inextricably mixed due to battle damage or subsequent decay after being in a temporary mass grave. In these cases several men may be reburied in one grave or in extreme cases be left in the mass grave (eg VC Corner Cemetery).

[Roy Evans]

In these cases several men may be reburied in one grave or in extreme cases be left in the mass grave (eg VC Corner Cemetery).

Thanks as ever for the speedy reply. How are the men in the mass grave at VC Corner commemorated?

Roy

[Muerrisch]

Tyne Cot has several oddities among the headstones which no-one has ever explained in a way that convinced me.

'a Scottish soldier' [no rank, no regiment, just nationality]. Perhaps a fragment of kilt or sporran was found [certainly not a shoulder title, cap badge, rank badge or the like, or CWGC would say more].

Even more so, 'an Irish soldier'.

and 'a Welsh soldier'. How on earth could that be deduced?

Given that CWGC need hugely convincing evidence before altering an ID , what on earth was it that made them do more than 'a soldier' and less than anything else? I know I have aired this before, but we have lots of new members these days.

Imagine, a poor dead body on the battlefield, almost certainly a soldier. No recognisable idents on body or uniform, but we know he was Welsh [here I am being kind, allowing Welsh to equal member of Welsh unit]. Go on, convince me!

[Terry Denham]

Roy

V.C. Corner Australian Cemetery has over 400 men who died in the battle at Fromelles 19-20 July 1916.

They do not have individual headstones but their names are carved on a screen wall along with others missing in the same area - a total of 1294 names.

Langley

CWGC was not responsible for the partially identified remains - they were decided by the army when they recovered the bodies and filed the returns. CWGC only took over responsibility after reburial.

The only real means of partial identification were, as you say, fragments of uniform with badges, patches, tartan etc. There were also a few areas where the body could only have come from particular units. There also could have been some documentary evidence in the pockets etc. Also, any original wooden cross marker put on the grave by comrades etc could have given the clue.

Only a look at the burial returns of the time would give a clue as to what lead them to positively identify a regiment or nationality. (You are also right in that the nationality given is always that of the unit rather than the individual - a Russian serving in the Scots Guards would be 'Scottish')

[Roy Evans]

Thanks again Terry