peter__m Posted 30 May , 2006 Share Posted 30 May , 2006 Am working my way through all this stuff and am just trying to establish what medals my great grandfather should have had. I have only his war medal. 2 / Royal Irish Rifles I'm assuming that's telling me its the 2nd Battalion. Didn't know that so am loving that! Under the medal roll box part there is something signed that looks like 'D. of Wds' What is this? Or who or what? There is probably a very simple answer I know. Underneath action taken it also says, 'Clasp/2/2673' Well it looks like that anyway. I know there's a clasp but what is the significance of those numbers. A book? Any help given will be much appreciated! Thanks Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon2 Posted 30 May , 2006 Share Posted 30 May , 2006 Peter, 2nd Royal Irish Rifles was part of the 3rd Divison, 7th Brigade which was one of the first divisions to go to France in August 1914 hence the Clasp. The numbers attached on the MIC I believe is the reference for the 1914 star roll at the NA. You say you have his war medal, which one? You mention you are aware of the clasp so I take it you have his 1914 Star. If your man was definately in the 2nd RIR and went to France in August 1914 he would have been entitled to the 1914 Star,British War Medal and Victory Medal at the least. The words 'D.of wds' I would of thought meant 'died of wounds'. Do you know if your GG died during the war?. If you post his name and army number the pals on this forum could tell you alot more. Perhaps you could post his MIC here so we could have a look for you. Regards, Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 30 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2006 Awww thanks man...that's great...it means a lot to me to find out as much as I can. I really appreciate that reply from you. I used the CWGC website and have found his grave in Le Bizet. That has given me access to some other bits of info. I have cross referenced these with the MIC and it all is working out. Name: MULLAN, JAMES Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lance Serjeant Regiment/Service: Royal Irish Rifles Unit Text: "G" Coy., 2nd Bn. Age: 39 Date of Death: 28/11/1915 Service No: 6637 Additional information: Husband of Mrs. M. Mullan, of 6, Darraghs Lane, Church St.. Newtownards. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: B. 4. Cemetery: LE BIZET CEMETERY, ARMENTIERES __________________ I have a British War Medal 1914 - 1918. Name, rank, number and all work out but I do not have the others. I also have a local newspaper photocopy giving notice he had been killed in action 7 / 12 / 1915. No one has ever been out to pay respects to him in Armentieres and I would love to do that. What else can I find out? Thank you. p.s. I have tried the post a picture of the MIC but it says its too big? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon2 Posted 30 May , 2006 Share Posted 30 May , 2006 Peter, Most of the pals on the forum have got infinite knowledge. Myself, just a newbie really but try and help where I can for now. The 3rd Division was heavily involved in the fighting around Loos,Hooge Sept 1915 so it is possible your man was wounded here and subsequently died of his wounds later. His service papers should enlighten you if they are still available. Only 30-40% survive I believe so it's hit and miss I'm afraid. His MIC, are you trying to upload the six cards that normally get downloaded from the NA including your one or are you posting just the one MIC image. If you just do the one and reduce the size it should work. His Victory medal and 1914 star hopefully for you are still out there. There is a post on Sales and wants, I think where you can lodge any medal wants. You never know you might get lucky. If you scroll through Unit, formations someone may have a copy of the Divisional or Regimental history. I know if you click on the link long,long trail at top of page it will give you lots of info on how to search , where and certain unit histories. Hope to see the MIC. Regards, Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 30 May , 2006 Share Posted 30 May , 2006 Try using the Select tool in Acrobat Reader to select just his card and copy and paste to a Paint program, then reduce to about 85% in size (use the Stretch/Skew tool in Paint if you don't have anything else) and save as a Jpeg. That should get you in under the 100kb file size limit for pics posted on the Forum. Judging by his service number he probably enlisted in the early 1900s and would have probably served with either the 1st or 2nd Battalions for 7 years before going onto Reserve for another 5 years. He would probably have been coming to the end of his Reserve period when he was recalled. "G" Company is a throwback to the eight company structure of battalions that was supposed to have been restructured into four company (A,B,C,D) before the war. Some Regiments persisted with the old structure beyond the start of the war, however. Before the War, the 2nd Battalion served in South Africa (1899-1903), Dublin (1903-1906), Aldershot (1906-1910), Dover (1910-1912), and Tidworth (1912-1914) He may however have been with the 1st Battalion prior to the war and been recalled to the 2nd Battalion because they were in the UK at the time. 1st Battalion served in India: Dehra Dun (1899-1903), Fyzabad (1903-1906), Meerut (1906-1909), Burma (1909-1911), Kamptee (1911-1913) and Aden (1913-1914). The third possibility is that he was in one of the Reserve regiments stationed in Ireland (3rd, 4th & 5th) battalions, in which case his number may suggest a different enlistment time. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 30 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2006 Thanks a lot guys. I really appreciate your help. Any further ideas? How can you access service papers / unit war diaries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 30 May , 2006 Share Posted 30 May , 2006 Service Papers and War Diaries are held at the National Archives at Kew. Only 25-30% of the Service Records survived the Blitz in 1940 when the warehouse was bombed. Those that do - the "Burnt Records" are in Series WO363 on Microfilm and are hard to read in many places. These are in alphabetical order but there is an Index. That all sounds a bit of a gloomy prospect but it's best to be prepared for disappointment rather than go in expectation. There is also a WO364 series which hould be checked as well. Both series have "Missorts" (i.e. ones out of order). An index to WO364 (the smaller series) is available on the Long, Long Trail. Most of the War Diaries still exist and are in original written form available to view. The NA is currently scanning the War Diaries to make them available online, at around £3.50 per month of War Diary. (Can get rather expensive rather quickly this way...) Most War Diaries will not mention anyone below the rank of Company sergeant Major, except as x OR (Other Ranks) wounded or y OR killed. The 2nd Royal Irish Rifles war Diaries are online: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...ine/default.asp Type in: Royal AND Irish AND Rifles into the search and you select Military and Defence from the results list. Of course, the Online Diaries are only scanned up to October 1915! Typical. I believe you can request a scan of a diary but I haven't tried that one yet. There are also Regimental Histories available - the RIR one is by Cyril Falls - which give context to the events. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 30 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2006 Yeah thanks. Think I will try and order Nov and Dec War diaries for 1915. Hope I have got the Battalion right. Its has a '2/Roy. Iri. Rif' on corps but then it also has 4/6637 on the soldier number is this significant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon2 Posted 30 May , 2006 Share Posted 30 May , 2006 Its has a '2/Roy. Iri. Rif' on corps but then it also has 4/6637 on the soldier number Peter, The number quoted above has a link to this man below at the NA but a different regiment and rank. Wierd. Medal card of Mullan, James Corps: Royal Irish Fusiliers Regiment No: 4/6637 Rank: Private... 1914-1920 WO 372/14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 30 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2006 Yeah I know it is weird. It completely stumped me for a while because on the CGWC website it was Royal Irish Rifles with that number 4/6637... But luck would have it that I followed my gut feelings on it and I downloaded the medal card for him anyway. It would turn out to be some sort of typing error on the listing because on the actual MCI 'Royal Irish Rifles' is written very clearly and no mention of Fusiliers at all! Not that I have anything against them! He also was promoted. So it says private on the MCI initally but also has a note that he was promoted to Acting Corporal. There is no mention of Lance Serjeant on the MCI but there is on the grave. So I'm tryin to get my head round that one. On the medal I have it has the number 4/6637 but with A Corporal inscribed on it... He's still playing very hard to get after all this time but I like it. Could anyone explain the differences with ranks? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 30 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2006 Here's the MCI that is different to its listing... It was sort of invisible...that may explain a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 30 May , 2006 Share Posted 30 May , 2006 The number refers to one of the Royal Irish Rifles Reserve Regiments (which throws my assumption about enlistment dates out of the window). All that means is that he enlisted into one of the Reserve Regiments (also known as Special Reserve, as they were the Reserve for the Regular battalions rather than the Wartime battalions). Before 1908 the 4th Battalion was the Antrim Militia (Queens Own Royal Rifles) and after 1908 was called the Royal North Down Rifles. He may have served solely with the Reserve battalion or also with either of the two Regular battalions. You would need to hope that his Service Record survived the Blitz to add further info. For the War, he was in the 2nd Royal irish Rifles, going overseas on 12th November 1914, entitling him to a 1914 Star, as well as his Victory Medal and British War Medal. He also had a Clasp to his 1914 Star for being within range of enemy field artillery before 22-11-1914 (the cut-off date for the 1914 Star). He reached the RANK of Acting Corporal before his death, but he had been APPOINTED as Lance Sergeant. A lot of the appointments do not appear on all official documents. He died of wounds, so would have been at least seen by the Medical people before he passed away, and possibly been evacuated down the casualty chain. As Armentieres was behind British lines it is probable that he was evacuated away from the front line rather than dying very soon after being wounded. This could mean that he was mortally wounded a few days before he died. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 30 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2006 Sorry Stebie...fantastic info...thanks... So...do you agree with me about the Fusiliers being a typing mistake or is there more to it? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 30 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2006 Oh and how does one go about getting your hand on service papers then? Thanks Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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