nicko576 Posted 18 May , 2006 Share Posted 18 May , 2006 Iam researching my great grandfather who was in the rifle brigade. upon reading the medal card it lists 2 service numbers one of them is 205401 which i have, but it also says on the line above 109,does anybody know what this means many thanks nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 18 May , 2006 Share Posted 18 May , 2006 Nick Assuming they are both Rifle Brigade numbers then it means he was a Territorial Soldier. The three digit number would have been his original number and then, when the Territorial Force was renumbered in early 1917 he would have been allocated the six digit number. There's a good article about the renumbering on the LLT mother site, link to it is Here You'll see his six digit number was in a block allocated to 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23th, 24th and 25th Battalions Rifle Brigade. Hope this helps. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 Nick, I presume your Great Grandfather was John Henry Edwards. He was in the 23rd (North Western) Battalion, The Rifle Brigade and as Steve has pointed out the number 119 was his number prior to the renumbering. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 The 23rd Battalion was formed at Halton by drafts principally from men of the Kings Liverpool, South Lancs and Manchester Regiments, who previous to their transfer were guarding prisoners of war at the Knockaloe Camp in the Isle of Man. It remained throughout under the command of Liet.-Collonel T.E. Turnbull, V.D., and sailing in the S.S. Euripides from Devonport on 12th January 1916, proceeded via the Suez Canal to Karachi where the Battalion disembarked on 10th Febraury. Their Part 1 Orders are largely preserved, and from these it appears that their history was an uneventful one. The Battalion was employed on Internal Seciurity duties throughout its stay in India; first at Multan, where it was quartered in the Edwardes Barracks, then from 22nd July 1918 at Bareilly in Clyde Barracks; one company was at Amritsar, according to the Indian Order of Battle in May 1916. The Battalion was demobilized in India; by 12th July the numbers were reduced to fifty; on 25th October it moved to Sialkot and the cadre was not finally dispersed until 4th February 1920. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 Nick, His medal roll has him down as having died on 10/6/18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 So does CWGC. Name: EDWARDS Initials: J H Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Rifleman Regiment/Service: Rifle Brigade Unit Text: 23rd Bn. Date of Death: 10/06/1918 Service No: 205401 Additional information: Husband of Mary Edwards. of Bootle. Merseyside. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Memorial: KARACHI 1914-1918 WAR MEMORIAL Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 Nick, I should add here that the 23rd left no War Diary. Of the seven battalions of these territorials, only four left any diary at all, the 19th, 20th,21st and 22nd. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 If you would like a copy of his medal roll, e mail me with your e mail addy and I will send you a copy. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 Andy Without wishing to hijack Nick's thread have you got copies of the 25th Bn Medal Rolls? I have a number of 25th Bn. Royal Fusiliers being transferred to the 25th Bn. Rifle Brigade (number range 213937 to 214785) and would be particularly interested in the details for them. I haven't got round to checking 'other unit' medal rolls for details yet. Is this something you can help with? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicko576 Posted 19 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2006 Steve Many many thanks for your help, i am so delighted at the results yourself and others have found out, my next topic is my great grandfathers brother Arthur Edwards, who died at the 3rd battle of ypres, he died on the 13 October 1917 and is remembered with honour, at cement house, he was serving with the first rifle brigade, ser no s/25049 do you know what kind of action he would have been involved with around this date many thanks nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicko576 Posted 19 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2006 The 23rd Battalion was formed at Halton...Andy Many many thanks yourself and steve have been magnificent, as on my reply to thank steve, i am now trying to find out what action might my great uncle been involved in around the time of his death once again many thanks nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 20 May , 2006 Share Posted 20 May , 2006 Nick, The 1st Battalions diary for the 13th reads "After dark the battalion was relieved and the battalion moved back to Leipzig Camp." They were around the Louis Farm area with an attack launched on the 12th. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 20 May , 2006 Share Posted 20 May , 2006 Nick, There is an aerial view of the area the 1st Battalion attacked and a report of the action in the War Diary if this is of interest to you. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 20 May , 2006 Share Posted 20 May , 2006 Steve, I have sent you a PM re this matter, will look for you this weekend. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicko576 Posted 20 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2006 Once again many thanks, for all your efforts, i would be most interested in any information regarding either the 1st rifle brigade, or arthur edwards many thanks nick cross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicko576 Posted 20 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2006 If you would like a copy of his medal roll, e mail me with your e mail addy and I will send you a copy. Andy andy my e mail address is nick@cross580.fsnet.co.uk thanks nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 20 May , 2006 Share Posted 20 May , 2006 Nick, I will send it all to you over the weekend. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 20 May , 2006 Share Posted 20 May , 2006 Steve, A quick look through shows 213937 JENNER, Harry. 25th Royal Fusiliers 12945 214214 CRUMP, George James 25th Royal Fusiliers 13347 214374 O'FLAHERTY, William Hale 25th Royal Fusiliers 13599 214734 OLIVIERI, Herbert Cromwell 25th Royal Fusiliers 13180 214785 QUINE, Stanley Norman 25th Royal Fusiliers 13602 All 25th Battalion, The Rifle Brigade. are there any more to your knowledge. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 20 May , 2006 Share Posted 20 May , 2006 Andy In addition to your list there is only one more 25th Rifle Brigade that I'm aware of: 213935 BRAZIER, Charles E. 25th Rifle Brigade (12945 25th Royal Fusiliers). I've also got another six 25th Royal Fusiliers being transferred to unidentified Rifle Brigade battalions: 51595 HOLLEY, John. (12892 25th Royal Fusiliers). 51603 McLEAY, Donald. (12860 25th Royal Fusiliers). 51605 McCALLUM, John A. (15051 25th Royal Fusiliers). 51619 WATSON, Hendrick. (15152 25th Royal Fusiliers). 55325 HESKETT, Stuart A. (15066 25th Royal Fusiliers). 57959 REDGRAVE, Bert H. (13014 25th Royal Fusiliers). Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 20 May , 2006 Share Posted 20 May , 2006 Hi Steve, Got them. Holley Depot R.B. McLeay Depot R.B. McCallum Depot R.B. Watson 16th Rifle Brigade Heskett Depot R.B. Redgrave Depot R.B. Also came across HAMMOND, Frank Meller, G/32883, 25th Royal Fusiliers, number 51596 Rifle Brigade. Andy Got Brazier too for you. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 20 May , 2006 Share Posted 20 May , 2006 Nick, The war diaries for the relevant period have been e mailed to you, interesting report on the action, alsoo a good aerial shot of the area, enjoy the reading. Will dig the medal rolls out for you shortly. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 20 May , 2006 Share Posted 20 May , 2006 Andy Just got your email with the 1914-15 Star Medal Rolls for the men from the 25th Royal Fusiliers. Absolutely Brilliant! Just what I needed, thanks very much. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 20 May , 2006 Share Posted 20 May , 2006 Steve, No problem, glad they were of use. I will get all the BWM/VM rolls together for you tomorrow Steve. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 21 May , 2006 Share Posted 21 May , 2006 Nick & Steve, All sent, hope you enjoy them. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 21 May , 2006 Share Posted 21 May , 2006 Andy All received, will keep me busy for a while as I add the details to my own database . Thanks again. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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