Peter Beckett Posted 4 October , 2003 Share Posted 4 October , 2003 Dave, after reading your comments and in particular If you mean "before sale" (ie. when I'm just going off a photo), then it's just luck combined with a little knowledge of the type of badge I'm buying. For example , a Victorian cavalry (or come to mention it, most infantry) with a slider, rather than lugs, is 90% guarenteed to be fake. I recently purchased an East Lancs Badge to put with the memorial article I am doing about my great uncle Richard Whiteside. Would you consider this to be a fake as it has a slider? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingscpl Posted 4 October , 2003 Share Posted 4 October , 2003 This the KC (King's Crown) version of the badge in use from 1901 to 1953 or thereabouts. Such is the prolification of restrikes British cap badges taken from original dies that without the provence of the badge it is almost impossible to confirm wether it is genuine. I have see this badge with both lugs and sliders. Purchase of British badges particularly the rare one's should be approached carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 5 October , 2003 Share Posted 5 October , 2003 Peter. It certainly looks ok to me. My reference to lugs and sliders was about the Victorian issues not the Kings crown ones which, for the EL's anyway, seem to be mainly sliders. I'll push the boat out to say that all those (EL badges)manufactured between say 1910 and 1952 have sliders. One thing that has been noticed is that WW1 issue sliders can be attached to the Sphynx rather than the crown. WW1 sliders can also be found attached to the crown (this is commonest), but there's no way of really dating it to any particular time period if this is the case. Sphynx attached sliders aren't found after 1918. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beckett Posted 5 October , 2003 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2003 Kingscpl and Dave, Thanks for that. I bought it in Australia and considering the price paid was A$14 dollars (about 3.5 quid), I was'nt 100% sure if it was genuine or not. As you said to date it to WW1 would be great but as its for a display I don't think anyone will be able to tell me its not. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted 5 October , 2003 Share Posted 5 October , 2003 As a couple of other Pals have mentioned, I am primarily a medal collector but I do like to mount a cap badge with the medals. Generally I have found them on ebay and as long as they just cost me a few dollars (or pounds), I would not be too upset if I discovered one was a fake/copy/restrike. I would hate to dish out forty or fifty quid and get stung! I am looking for a badge to the 9th Londons (Queen Victoria's Rifles) but I have a feeling that my chances of picking one up for a reasonable price are fairly slim. Cheers from Canada, Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest A Mafia Man Posted 5 October , 2003 Share Posted 5 October , 2003 Terry I'm not too sure what you call a 'reasonable price', but here is a 9th London's badge. It may be of some help. Cheers Joe http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...30&category=584 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 7 October , 2003 Share Posted 7 October , 2003 Peter, To be really certain if it is a genuine strike, we would need to see the flipside - any chance? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 7 October , 2003 Share Posted 7 October , 2003 I bought it in Australia and considering the price paid was A$14 dollars (about 3.5 quid), I was'nt 100% sure if it was genuine or not. Peter What's happened to the exchange rate?? I was in Sydney recently and you only got about 2.7 dollars to the pound. Has the Ozzie economy taken a knock....?? If not, please send me some Violet Crumbles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 7 October , 2003 Share Posted 7 October , 2003 Well, it was A$2.75 =£1 for the 'Pacific Peso' (so labelled by my partner's niece, who's a management accountant in Sydney!); earlier this year it had dropped to $2.39. As to Violet Crumbles... if the Oz Shop in Covent Garden hasn't got them (and I seem to remember it has, at a price, natch) then cross my palm with something useful and I'll see if I can get my local tame official Australian to arrange an emergency food parcel via the High Commission! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Samson Posted 8 October , 2003 Share Posted 8 October , 2003 To be really certain if it is a genuine strike, we would need to see the flipside - any chance? Ian, What are the tell-tale signs on the reverse of the badge that enable you determine, at least to some extent, whether a cap badge is a re-strike or not? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 8 October , 2003 Share Posted 8 October , 2003 To be really certain if it is a genuine strike, we would need to see the flipside - any chance? Ian, What are the tell-tale signs on the reverse of the badge that enable you determine, at least to some extent, whether a cap badge is a re-strike or not? Gary Gary, Taking the East Lancs badge on this thread, at the moment, my view is that it is a modern re-strike. Why? 1. The slider appears to be lacquered and the base has very sharp edges making it look freshly made. 2. There is no wear and tear on the face associated with something that is at least 50 years old. 3. There are no bulling marks to the lettering on the scroll. Why the flipside? 1. The lettering is always a give away - it should be sharp and well defined and have pitting marks. 2. There should be signs of wear on the back and dirt pockets. 3. The thickness of the slider. What this could be is a badge with a new slider, but there is no apparent wear. It may be claimed that this is an unissued example - bull - all the unissued brass Kings crown cap badges were scrapped years ago. At the end of the day you pays yer money. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Underwood Posted 8 October , 2003 Share Posted 8 October , 2003 And what would my learn'ed colleagues think of this Middlesex Regiment badge bought in the last fortnight off Ebay for 4.20 pounds. It arrived today and a close inspection reveals some wear....so I'm quietly confident it's the real McCoy. I'm happy with it either way.....ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 8 October , 2003 Share Posted 8 October , 2003 I just bought an RA Officers, RMLI and Northumberland Fus. badge on ebay. The RA one seems to be real, but the wheel has been reattached and the lugs are new. The RMLI badge once in my hand....seems to be too small to be a cap badge? I think its probably a collar! The NF badge is the only one of the three that I am really happy with. Buying badges on ebay is always a lottery. You really dont know what your getting unitl it arrives in your hand. I have never had this problem buying badges before, and that is mainly because at a military fair, you are able to closely examine your potential purchase. When I buy badges on ebay, I always go on the assumption that its not quite right, and if it turns out otherwise, great. (Therefore I will never spend more then $10 on any British badge) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Samson Posted 8 October , 2003 Share Posted 8 October , 2003 Thanks, Ian. Useful advice in what can be a real minefield for the occasional cap badge buyer. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 8 October , 2003 Share Posted 8 October , 2003 When I buy badges on ebay, I always go on the assumption that its not quite right, and if it turns out otherwise, great. (Therefore I will never spend more then $10 on any British badge) This is exactly the method that I use. An excellent piece of advice. By the way, some collectors only collect pristine examples that show no signs of wear and tear. Quite a few badges were issued, but never used (being "lost" and sent home , or souvenired somehow, etc), so the wear and tear can only be used as a guide.My father still has 3 of the East Lancs badges that he was issued with in 1950. One of these is an absolute minter that has never seen anything abrasive in it's life! Personally, I prefer mine to be in almost unused condition (though most aren't!). Admittedly, though, they all show signs of "age" someway or another. Different (and the same!) manufacturers also made badges slightly differently to each other, so you can find differences in the same badge. I must have 15 East Lancs badges (I only collect to the Lancs regiments) of the same type (white metal with brass rose, KC) and possibly only 3 or 4 of these are identical. Differences can be found in the width and hight of the wreath, thickness and size of the lettering, thickness and length of the slider, prominence of the rose, some have "pebbling"on the scroll, others don't. The list goes on. I don't know, but I suppose this could also be stated for other regiments? This game is definately turning into a minefield these days, especially as some re-strikes are becoming more convincing ( I used to collect III Reich items, but abandoned this. The fakes are as good as the originals in some cases!) Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Fisher Posted 9 October , 2003 Share Posted 9 October , 2003 'Caveat emptor' seems to be the order of the day. I prefer some wear, some bending, and a badge that's 'heavy', preferably bought from one of the few dealers I'd trust..... I wouldn't be happy with either of the badges shown here, Peter's seems far too new, and Ian's is too clean! After fifty-odd years the brass should be seriously tarnished, and I would expect some bending to the slider, as most people bent the slider to make the badge stay in the cap. I'm sure that these comments will be shot down in flames by an 'expert', but my only advice is go to a militaria fair, get to know the dealers that EVERYONE trusts implicitlyand talk to them. Handle their stock and get a feel for what's right and wrong. And above all, consider where you buy from. I've had some nice bits and pieces from e-bay and Speedbid, and some real stinkers. You pays yer money..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 9 October , 2003 Share Posted 9 October , 2003 And what would my learn'ed colleagues think of this Middlesex Regiment badge bought in the last fortnight off Ebay for 4.20 pounds. It arrived today and a close inspection reveals some wear....so I'm quietly confident it's the real McCoy. I'm happy with it either way.....ian. Ian, The slider is too good for my liking. However if you only spent £4-20, a pint and a half down our way, then there shouldn't be too much sting. Graeme is quite correct in what he says 'caveat emptor', buy from people you trust. The internet is a good way for some of the more unscrupulous to dispose of 'duff stuff'. I have a genuine Middlesex in my collection (Father got it in WW2), and I will try and post it for comparison. Ian B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 10 October , 2003 Share Posted 10 October , 2003 As to Violet Crumbles... if the Oz Shop in Covent Garden hasn't got them (and I seem to remember it has, at a price, natch) then cross my palm with something useful and I'll see if I can get my local tame official Australian to arrange an emergency food parcel via the High Commission! Phil, I may still call on you for help - but in the mean time, my red cross parcel arrived today. For the Brits who haven't had Tim Tams, they're like our P-P-P-Pick-Up-A-Penguin bar.... except the Tim Tams are better. The Crunchie Bar is the British equivalent, and it is a poor susbsitute, of the infamous Violet Crumble. These two items (and maybe a Cherry Ripe) are Australia's best kept secret, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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