ATM Posted 15 May , 2006 Share Posted 15 May , 2006 Anybody know what other units were in this force besides the 29th Punjabs. I know there were two Indian Imperial Battalions in it but I don't know their names. Did this unit devolve into a lower formation such as a Brigade or was it simply just 3 battalions ungrouped that made up the Expeditionary Force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted 15 May , 2006 Share Posted 15 May , 2006 According to http://members.fortunecity.de/mcsnipe/dataWWIindia.html read with http://www.geocities.com/cdferree/history/longido.html Force C was commanded by Brigadier [sic] J.M. Stuart, and comprised: 29th Punjabis Imperial Service Infantry (2 bns) ... Karpurthala ? 27th Mountain Battery, and MG Coy., Calcutta Volunteers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATM Posted 15 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 May , 2006 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 15 May , 2006 Share Posted 15 May , 2006 120th Field Ambulance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted 16 May , 2006 Share Posted 16 May , 2006 We're getting there. I found what looked like a better reference (I'm having no joy whatever with the London Gazette). According to http://www.pakdef.info/forum/showpost.php?...685&postcount=3 , Force C consisted of the 29th Punjabis, half battalions each of the Jind, Bharatpur, Karpurthala and Rampur Infantry Regiments (ISF), a volunteer 15-pdr. battery, a mountain 10-pdr. battery, a volunteer maxim battery (presumably the Calcutta Volunteers - see above) and a Field Ambulance (120th - see above). But then it adds Force C was broken up on arrival at Mombasa and its units subsequently served separately. That seems to match the evidence. Brigadier-General J. M. Stewart ended up as Major-General Sir J. M. Stewart, KCB CMG. His edited memoirs were published in 1992 as Jimmie Stewart - Frontiersman. (The book does not include an order of battle for Force C.) William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted 16 May , 2006 Share Posted 16 May , 2006 You might enjoy this. It's from Jimmie Stewart - Frontiersman - dealing with the departure and arrival of Force C. [Note to administrator: This is a legitimate quotation and not a breach of copyright.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 16 May , 2006 Share Posted 16 May , 2006 William, What is your ultimate question? The Force C contingents are well documented above but I feel that has not quite answered your query? Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted 16 May , 2006 Share Posted 16 May , 2006 Sorry, Colonel ... It's my fault for saying "We're getting there." I wasn't happy with my own answers to ATM yesterday, so I've been digging deeper to get it right. I think, as you say, that it's now well documented. The quote attached above was just for interest's sake because it describes the voyage of Force C across the Indian Ocean. I'll stop blathering now! William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATM Posted 16 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2006 Thankyou very much for your help. My ultimate aim was to learn the names of the units. In particular the 2 Imperial Service battalion's names and the support units. I had been scouring the net for the units for hours but couldn't find them. (Despite my univeristy doing war studies it's useless as is the local library and I'm too poor a student have anything good of my own.) Feel like a tit now that you can produce the info like that. Thankyou very much for your help, it really is appreciated. Though there is one more question I will ask you if you don't mind, and this is out of general curiosity more than anything else. The Canadian's raised a battalion of Frontiersmen which never saw action. When it was disbanded did the men get put into the Canadian reserve battalions or sent to the 25th RF? Thanks once more for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 17 May , 2006 Share Posted 17 May , 2006 Hi ATM, William, My main source of orders of battle for East Africa is the official history and Gazette entries although for this operation I do not have a gazette entry. Regarding the Canadian contingent for the 25th RF I believe they were incorporated into other Canadian units as none are, to my knowledge, known to have been in East Africa. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATM Posted 17 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 May , 2006 Thanks once again. Criminal that these campaigns aren't as well documented as they ought to be. There is a reason why it's called a "world war". Oh well, the thing that strikes me most about IEF's B and C is the waste of the 2nd Loyal North Lancs. What a sheer waste of trained manpower that could have been sent to Europe. Utter waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted 18 May , 2006 Share Posted 18 May , 2006 Isn't it because the campaign in East Africa until Smuts arrived (and possibly thereafter) was so badly managed that the people at the time thought it should be allowed to fade into obscurity? Interesting what you say about the waste of the 2nd Loyal North Lancs. - At least they were spared the horrors of France and Flanders. Between October 1915 – December 1916, they lost three men killed or died of wounds, and 24 men died of other causes in East Africa (manual count from Soldiers Died.) They must have had a terrible sick list, however - since they spent the period May - August 1916 in South Africa recuperating from the effects of disease. William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 18 May , 2006 Share Posted 18 May , 2006 Strangely, my grandfather and several accounts of his comrades state that they preferred France to the disease ridden existence that was East Africa. True few died of enemy action in East Africa but many died as a result of diseases but are not shown as war dead as they died after the cut off date for the CWGC. The LNL main body certainly went ot rest camp in SA but the mounted and machine gun sections remained with General Shepperds 1st Infantry Brigade as did the 25th RF. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATM Posted 18 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 18 May , 2006 My point on the 2nd North Lancs was from a unemotional point of view. At a time when the British army was being decimated in France and running low on trained manpower, it just seems a criminal waste. Though I suppose you can say that about the 29th at Gallipoli too. Brilliant thing hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 18 May , 2006 Share Posted 18 May , 2006 I can’t see that the 2nd Loyal North Lancs were wasted. They arrived at a time when the forces in British East Africa amounted to a few battalions of King’s African Rifles and locally raised ‘Irregular’ troops and were used to strengthen the defence of the colony and with it British interests when German forces over the border outnumbered their British counterparts and invasion was a distinct possibility. We mustn’t forget that this was a ‘world war’ and British interests overseas still had to be protected, even if the powers that be couldn’t make up their minds how it should be done and who should be responsible for doing it. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 18 May , 2006 Share Posted 18 May , 2006 At least they were spared the horrors of France and Flanders As Roop has suggested, I believe the opinion of a number of soldiers that served in East Africa and on the Western Front was that they preferred France etc. to the miserable, disease ridden, existance they endured in East Africa. The foreward to Angus Buchanan's "Three Years of War In East Africa" sums up the situation when one soldier is quoted as saying "Ah, I wish to h___ I was in France! There one lives like a gentleman and dies like a man, here one lives like a pig and dies like a dog." Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted 19 May , 2006 Share Posted 19 May , 2006 I trust you chaps won't mind if I deviate just a little from the topic? Kondoa Roop - given your interests, can you tell me anything about the work of the 4th (South African) Howitzer Battery, RGA, in German East Africa? I have it that they arrived in East Africa on 6 October 1915 and were re-designated as the 12th (Howitzer) Battery in February 1916. More details would be very gratefully received ! William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 21 May , 2006 Share Posted 21 May , 2006 William, Yes, I can give you more info, I have their diary. My grandfather was also attached to them throughout 1916. I will be able to respond next weekend when back in camp. Send your email to me via forum email for forwarding scans. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted 21 May , 2006 Share Posted 21 May , 2006 Thanks - will do!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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