Unusual German Regimental Plaque

[barrieduncan]

Hey folks,

One of our curators showed me this today and wondered if I knew anything about it. I'd loved to have looked really smart and said I did, but sadly, I don't. So, I though i'd post it up here and see who's gonna be the first to tell me

You can get an idea of the size in the second pic. Its approx 2 feet in diameter and is made of cast iron. The detail is quite impressive. As far engravings, round the outer rim, there are battle honours, starting with the Peninsular war and ending with the Franco Prussian. The engraving on the inner rim is "Freiherr von Sparr No 16 Infanterie Regiment". Above the central image is the word "Hacketau" (sp?) and the engraving beneath this is "In treuer Kameradschaft dem scheidenden Kameraden zur Erinnerung". Now, I think this means "In true comradeship, as a memento to the departing comrade."

I googled Von Sparr and got a 17th Century German fieldmarshal - could the image be of this man?

Who what or where is Hacketau, all I got on google is something to do with the Freikorps.

Does anyone have any ideas what this is, and, more interestingly, how did it end up being dug-up from a back garden in Wishaw!

Yours stumped,

Barrie

[john w.]

Maybe?

What do you think.... translation from the german below...

Franc Göse: Otto Christoph baron von Sparr 1605-1668. The first Brandenburg-Prussian general field marshal (= single publications of the Brandenburgi historical commission; Bd. IX), Berlin: Lukas publishing house 2006, 183 S., ISBN 3-936872-76-7, EUR 16,90

Rezensiert of:

Michael emperor

Historical seminar, university to Cologne

Who itself with the brandenburgischen history 17. Century busily, discovers fast Otto Christoph baron von Sparr, whose name is connected with the structure of brandenburgischen war power under cure prince Friedrich William. All the more amazingly is it that, apart from some smaller work, which is past last biographic attempt to Sparr 145 years. [1] The attempt to submit a new biographic sketch is thus being obvious. With franc Göse takes care of now a specialist of the topic, who made itself particularly as a specialist for the brandenburgischen aristocracy of this epoch a name. It wants Sparr, which originated from an old-established noble family in the Mark Brandenburg, when “case of model of an officer of the transition epoch from the professional army to miles perpetuus” represent (8).

A short sketch of this noble environment, those at the threshold to 17. Century by the heavy crisis of the credit and finance was shaken, represents the prelude to the biography. Equal however a Grundproblem of the scientific occupation with Sparrs becomes here lives clearly, for which there is an only very incomplete excessive quantity over far distances. Straight one for the childhood and youth gives it hardly certifications, at all is missing reflexive documents, which could illuminate the motivations and the thought world of the Protagonisten. The biography Sparrs is opened over its actions, and so the author must be limited far parts to operate war history. Because Sparr pursued, like it many young noble ones in this time did, a military career.

Its career can be retraced into the 1630er year, when Sparr occurred first the imperial army, then also for the interests of the cure prince from Cologne to field pulled. The end of the dreissigjährigen war did not mean a career end for it by any means, because the cure prince of Brandenburg looked for proven of military. 1649 changed Sparr into the service Friedrich of William. This necessary it for the time being at the Niederrhein, an area, which the Brandenburger Sparr had already become acquainted with in the last war years. Among other things Sparr befehligte there the brandenburgischen units in the so-called “cow war” 1651. The ascent to the commander over the kurfürstlichen troops, to the “Capo of the army” thus, took place in the Nordi war; High point and in this study in detail stated is the battle with Warsaw, when at the end of of July 1656 the united Swedish brandenburgischenTruppen the Polish quantity defeated. The years after saw Sparr busy with military functions of the administration, to 1664 followed its participation in the Turk war, when he kommandierte brandenburgische contingents in the battle with pc. God hard/Mogersdorf (152-157), 1666 interspersed it the brandenburgische claim on Magdeburg with military power. Two years later Sparr on its goods in the Barnim, in the so-called “rafter country” died.

How it worked satisfactorily for biographic work, the chronological structure determines the book also here. Passages are again and again enwoven, which enrich the event-historical operational sequence with structural background informations. Also important biographic details emerge here, as the stations of Sparrs career as its appointment as the general field marshal (127) or the collection into the realm count conditions (158) or also data to Sparrs goods possession and - acquisition (84-87). Straight one in these passages shows up the special value of this work, which for assistance of new sources made of Vienna, Magdeburg and from secret public records Prussian culture possession reliable statements can make Sparrs biography.

Somewhat unfortunate it is only that these findings are to be sought out within the representation partly with difficulty. There is no person register and no index, in order to find for example the information central for the biography that Sparrs own Feldkanzlei, which was lost to so-called war documents, obviously already early: The reference is in the middle in the representation hidden (109). Furthermore remarks are distributed to the contemporary artillery nature over the entire text, in which Sparr particularly engaged itself and which was a characteristic element of its military career. There is a first general reference to it (21) at the beginning of the representation, but does not remain the relevance of this peculiarity Sparrs in the course of the biography always so clearly, as it would have been desirable.

Two peculiarities in the Nachzeichnung of Sparrs biography earn to be emphasized. On the one hand Göse adheres strict to the facts, which to some extent safe he can reconstruct. Otherwise it smoothes nothing, but refers to unevenness in the historical picture and does not designate white marks in the excessive quantity - so the birth year Sparrs is not secured, likewise the beginning of its military course (22) and the collection into the baron conditions (88). On the other hand it concerns in no way one glorios verbrämte history. For Sparr did not grow the trees into the sky; so it had to accept shortening its purchases again and again for example regardless of all achievements for the cure prince (see 139). This limited still adds itself into the general Duktus of the representation, which becomes clear on the new always leaves, like in this time the military possibilities of Brandenburg was - for instance with the advertisements, the pay payments or with the supply of the troops.

So steadfastly itself Göse also the scientific principles obligated white, wants to turn its study expressly not only to the scholarly specialized public, but also in the width be rezipiert. Sparr is drawn as a historical personality, that belongs according to the author also to the inheritance of brandenburgischen history. Whether for this reason the attribute of the “first Brandenburg-Prussian general field marshal” must be stressed in such a manner that it is already assigned Sparr in the sub-title, is undecided. For the understanding Sparrs more importantly is the circumstance that he, as the representation shows clearly stands for the generation of military, which learned the war handicraft in the dreissigjährigen war and brought in these experiences then in the second half of the century. The brandenburgische field gentleman is to be seen thus in a line with imperial military such as Melchior of Hatzfeldt and Raimondo Montecuccoli. These historical purchases to have made visible, is the actual merit/service of the small band.

[john w.]

Around the rim is 1870, wasn't that the Franco Prussian war? Looks like we concurr maybe he was the founder?

John

[barrieduncan]

Thats the only thing I could think of, however I still don't have a clue as to what the plaque was made for. It seems to be commemorating a specific person, going by the inscription - "In treuer Kameradschaft dem scheidenden Kameraden zur Erinnerung" - "In true comradeship, as a memento to the departing comrade." Maybe 'Hacketau' has something do with it.

Thanks for posting up that article, I had come across various mentions on german sites when I googled it, but had no idea how to start translating it

Barrie

[Steven Broomfield]

It may beobvious, but the 16th Infantry Regiment was officially named for Von Sparr - the (3rd Westphalian) Regiment Baron von Sparr No. 16, garrisoned in Cologne.

Presumably the battle honours refer to the regiment's service (it was originally formed in 1813, I believe), and my guess is it's some form of memorial, probably 'borrowed' by some Jock from the Army of Occupation.

It looks lovely, though.

[barrieduncan]

Hey Steven,

The dates of the Battle honours start from 1813-14 (I think) and end in 1870-71 (again I think). This ties it in at least to when it was formed. I'm guessing (probably incorrectly) that the next battle honour for the regiment was in WW1.

I wonder if it was brought back in WW1 or WW2. Unfortunately we don't have any donation details for the item, so we can't even narrow it down any

Either way, I have to laugh thinking about some Jock trying to smuggle this back on the troop ship home, its bloody heavy!

Barrie

[egbert]

Anyway, stolen German property

Army of occupation thieves

[CROONAERT]

Anyway, stolen German property

Army of occupation thieves

... and the soldiers of the German Army never stole anything in the lands that they occupied did they, Egbert?

Dave.

[egbert]

Freikorps Hacketau was formed 18 Mar 1919 in Recklinghausen, primarily of men from Infanterie-Regiment 16 Freiherr von Sparr.

It saw action in the Ruhr 1920.

It was used to form Reichswehr-Brigade 7 June 1919.

A memorial in memory of the fallen of this Freikorps unit was inaugurated 24 June 1923 in Remscheid.

Formed in the area of

Generalkommando VII. Armeekorps Münster (Provinz Westfalen, Lippe)

[barrieduncan]

If the proper authorities in Germany want it back they can pay the shipping!

[barrieduncan]

Egbert, any idea what 'Hacketau' refers to? Is it named after someone, or is it a place?

[SiegeGunner]

So steadfastly itself Göse also the scientific principles obligated white, wants to turn its study expressly not only to the scholarly specialized public, but also in the width be rezipiert.

If this is what machine translation can do (after 30 years of development and millions of £ of investment), I guess we human translators can pack up and go home

Mick

[egbert]

http://cgi.ebay.de/Medaille-Freikorps-Hack...1QQcmdZViewItem

[egbert]

... and the soldiers of the German Army never stole anything in the lands that they occupied did they, Egbert?

Dave.

Interesting -I buy that = put both Armies in a sack and beat it -you will always hit the right Army!

[CROONAERT]

Interesting -I buy that = put both Armies in a sack and beat it -you will always hit the right Army!

Now you know that I'm not one to ever put down the German Army, Egbert, but "soldiers are soldiers" no matter what nation they hail from. None were "angels"!!!

Dave.

[egbert]

Egbert, any idea what 'Hacketau' refers to? Is it named after someone, or is it a place?

My limited German says "its a battle call" = Hacke Tau

[SiegeGunner]

Werner Rinck von Baldenstein: Das Infanterie-Regiment Freiherr von Sparr (3. Westfälisches) Nr. 16 im Weltkriege 1914/1918: "Hacke tau !" - Erinnerungsblätter (208) - Oldenburg, Stalling, 1927.

As Egbert says, 'Hacke tau!' is a war cry - or even perhaps a 'haka'!

For the benefit of those not familiar with the noble sport of rugby, a 'haka' is a Maori war dance/chant, laying down a challenge, which is performed by the New Zealand rugby team before international matches.

Mick

[Steven Broomfield]

If the proper authorities in Germany want it back they can pay the shipping!

No need - find some Jock in BAOR who's going back from leave

[barrieduncan]

What, and have it end up nailed to the backwall of the mess hall?

[Rob B]

No, It would make a fantastic NAAFI table, and anyway whats with this Jock bit!

Cheers,

Rob

[barrieduncan]

Well, as far as our curators can remember, someone discovered this plaque when digging in his garden, and he asked us if we wanted it. Us being in Scotland, we'r assuming some Scottish soldier brought it home either WW1 or WW2 - hence the Jock bit.

Barrie

[SiegeGunner]

More on 'Hacke tau!':

On 23 August 1813, during the Napoleonic Wars, the Infantry Regiment Freiherr von Sparr formed part of the Prussian army led by von Bülow, supported by Swedish troops commanded by the ex-French Marshal Jean Bernadotte, which faced a French army headed by Marshal Oudinot at Gross Beeren. The battle was fought in torrential rain, which rendered muskets useless, and the soldiers were urged on in hand-to-hand fighting with their gun butts by cries of 'Hacke tau!', which literally means something like 'Strike out', but might be better rendered (in British English, at least) as 'Get stuck in!' or 'Bash on!' The Prussian/Swedish army won the day and Oudinot retired in disarray. 'Hacke tau!' was then adopted as the official battle cry of the Regiment.

Panzerbataillon 203 of the modern German Bundeswehr has adopted the traditions of the Infantry Regiment Freiherr von Sparr and the cry 'Hacke tau!' is still used on special occasions.

None of which helps explain how the plaque got where it is today.

There is a website for IR 'Freiherr von Sparr' Nr 16, which gives an e-mail address for the 'Traditionsoffizier', one Hauptmann Johann Feikes - Infrgt16@web.de

Barrie - perhaps you should send him pics of the plaque and see if he can cast any light on what it is and how it might have found its way to a garden in Scotland ?

Mick

[barrieduncan]

Cheers Mick, that finally clears up the 'Hacketau' bit. Much appreciated.

Our archivist is German so perhaps I'll ask her to send an email.

Thanks for that Mick,

Barrie

[Jack Sheldon]

I have been trying to get to the bottom of this 'Hacketau' [all one word, incidentally] thing for some time now - but in a rather unfocussed, desultory sort of way - and without much success. According to the regimental history (p 12) the full battlecry is actually 'Hacketau et geit fort Vaterland!' and the author states that it was derived from a cry used 'by their forefathers' Now it could be early 19thC, but I am not so sure. The cry in that form looks to me (as a non-specialist) like old high German, which would make it far older than the origins of the regiment (raised 1813). Because the regiment comes from Westphalia, it might even be a harking back to the destruction of the Roman legions in 9 AD, which is commemorated near Detmold by Hermanns Denkmal on the Teutoburgerwald. The members of the regiment were nicknamed Hacketauer (with an umlaut over the second 'a').

Its prominent deeds in the Franco-Prussian War date back to the battle of Mars-la-Tour (16 Aug 1870) and Beaune-la- Rolande (28 Nov 1870). The plaques/shields seem to date back to this period, but were no longer presented after, say, 1920, because the old regiment and its traditions had gone along with the remainder of the Imperial German Army. This is not the only one of its type, of which I have knowledge. When the Lancashire Regiment (PWV) was serving in Hilden in the early 1960s, a German doctor presented one in excellent condition to the Officers' Mess. It is still in use as a firescreen to this day by the Mess of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment. From memory, the face and the central section are coated or plated bronze, with a type of matt gilt in amongst the lettering and around the outer edge.

I am not sure how, when, or why they were originally made and presented - on retirement? The story that went with the Lancashires plaque was that it had been presented to the doctor's father when the regiment disbanded. They evidently had a stock of these things, so at the end, each of the Great War officer survivors received one as a lasting souvenir.

Jack

[barrieduncan]

Jack,

Thanks for that rather intriguing info. Could 'hacketau' possibly hark back to the days of Christoph von Sparr, who the regiment is named after. He was about in the 1600's (still not sure why the regiment is names after him - he's from Brandenburg and the regiment, Westphalia).

As regards to the plaque itself, I'd be very surprised if it didn't pre-date WW1, or 1918 at least. I figure that if it had been given out after WW1, it would have some Great War honours on it.

Oh its a conundrum!

Barrie