Guest Russel SA Posted 10 May , 2006 Share Posted 10 May , 2006 Hi from South Africa My mothers maiden name is Ashburner and her father was Clifford William Ashburner who was a sergeant and was in the 9th Light Horse regiment. I was stunned to find this info on the Nek (Nek is an Afrikaans word from South Africa - originating from the boers who are white settlers from Holland, Germany, etc. ). I believe the Sgt Clifford Ashburner Ashburner to be my grandfather who was mentioned in dispatches (L.G. 29354). Please, please any other information would be most welcome as my mother rarely knew her father and we know very little about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 10 May , 2006 Share Posted 10 May , 2006 Hi Russell - welcome to the Forum; let's hope we can help! Re your second paragraph - which Nek are you referring to? - is it at Gallipoli Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Russel SA Posted 10 May , 2006 Share Posted 10 May , 2006 Hi Russell - welcome to the Forum; let's hope we can help! Re your second paragraph - which Nek are you referring to? - is it at Gallipoli Stephen Stephen At present I know so little about this I have to do some research as I found this by using Google today. I am in a daze as I have been very hungry for info on my grandfather who dissapeared from my mothers life and I never met him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Russel SA Posted 10 May , 2006 Share Posted 10 May , 2006 Stephen At present I know so little about this I have to do some research as I found this by using Google today. I am in a daze as I have been very hungry for info on my grandfather who dissapeared from my mothers life and I never met him. The information I came across comes from the battle of the Nek, August 1915 against the Turks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 10 May , 2006 Share Posted 10 May , 2006 Russell - I am unsure of how the Nek was named - it could be a turkish word or it could have been used by those troops who have fought at the Nek durign the Boer war and asw a similarty . there is a short section on the batle fo the Nek at http://www.nla.gov.au/gallipolidespatches/1-13-the_nek.html and also at http://www.anzacsite.gov.au/2visiting/walk_12nek.html However turning to your Grandfather there is a CWE Ashburner shown in the Medal Index Card register at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...ultcount=2;this shows him serving with the 38th Light Horse Regt. I am now starting to get out of my depth but I am sure that another Pal will be able to assist. What I suggets you do is open up a new thread, on the soldiers element of the forum with your grandfather's name and unit in the first line of the title and "Austrilian help needed" - Bill Woerlee was doing some work in this unit but I am sure that others will be able to contribute Good luck Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 10 May , 2006 Share Posted 10 May , 2006 Russel, Here's a bit of info for you: Clifford William Ernest Ashburner enlisted on 19th October, 1914 in South Australia as a Private (Regimental No. 38) with the 9th Light Horse, AIF. At the time he was 5'11", 160 lbs, fair complexion, blue eyes and brown hair. He was born in 1889 in the parish of Alexandra, Port Elizabeth, South Africa. His parents were Ernest Ashburner (b. 1862 India - d. 1939 Durban Sth Africa) and his third wife Dorothy Bean (b. 1865 - d. 1911) At the time of enlistment he listed his trade as 'Pugilist' and stated he was married to Elizabeth Christiana Ashburner. He also stated he had previously served with the 'Driscoll Scouts - British South African Mounted Police' during the Boer War and later spent 2 years with the Kimberley Regiment. (His records show he supposedly put his age up from 12 to 17 to serve during the Boer War) He served at Gallipoli with the 9th LH and indeed was at the Battle of the Nek. If you check this previous thread, on page 4 you will see mention of him in soldiers diaries: On the 26th August 1915 he was Mentioned in Dispatches by Sir Ian Hamilton and this was listed in the London Gazette Supplement No. 29354 on 5th November, 1915. After leaving Gallipoli he served in Palestine but in November 1916 was court martialled for stealing some binoculars. He was sentenced to 6 months in the lock-up but this was suspended soon after. After this he joined the 4th Machine Gun Squadron in Palestine and served with them until the end of the war. After returning to Australia in 1919, he was discharged in September as medically unfit. There is also some question regarding an apparant award of the DCM. His records reflect that he believed he was awarded one in 1915 and was invested with the award in 1917 at a ceremony headed by General Allenby. Enquiries by his employer regarding this fact in the early 1950's state that the DCM was listed on his discharge certificate. There was also an enquiry by his daughter Rosemary in 1967 regarding this fact. However the records do not have any mention of the award and a search conducted on both these occasions came up with no evidence of the DCM. (It would be interesting to see the discharge papers) Also at some time between 1913-1923 he was a farmer near Griffith in NSW (possibly a soldier settler?) In 1923 he married Eily Coghlan (b. 1865 - d. 1960) and they had a daughter Rosemary. I don't know what happened to his first wife. He later served with the AIF during WW2 as V80914 Private Ashburner 15th Garrison Battalion, being discharged in 1940. (I think he altered his age again as there are two records with different DOB's) After serving with the Corps of Commisionaires later in life, Clifford died at the Heidelberg Repatriation Hospital, Melbourne, Australia in 1966. You are able to view his WW1 service records. Just go to the Australian National Archives Record Search: http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/ResearcherScreen.asp Type 'ashburner' in keywords and B2455 in the reference number. Half a dozen records will be returned but his is easy to pick out and then just click on digitized copy. Finally, I think you will find the following website absolutely fascinating. http://www.microbiology.adelaide.edu.au/cthomas/pafg25.htm The link is for the Tasmanian branch of the Thomas Family and Related Families and obviously the Ashburners fit in somewhere. The family tree on this site shows the Ashburner family have links with India, Australia, South Africa and England. The link takes you directly to the page listing Clifford but if you track backwards through his parents, grandparents etc etc the family tree begins with your GGGGGGGGG Grandfather, John (of Gleaston) Ashburner (b. 1577 Lancashire - d. 1654). It's a bit of a tangled web but I'm sure if you sit down and work through it, your entire family history is contained there. Hope this has helped, Tim L. P.S. Sorry haven't been able to come up with a photo as yet but I think there are a few of other family members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 10 May , 2006 Share Posted 10 May , 2006 Tim. Now that's what I call service Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 10 May , 2006 Share Posted 10 May , 2006 My wife says I'm obsessed............maybe she's right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Doneley Posted 10 May , 2006 Share Posted 10 May , 2006 Tim. Now that's what I call service Stephen Stephen, I have to agree with you. Tim, I commend you on such a courteous and compassionate service, not to mention thorough. I dips me lid, mate! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 11 May , 2006 Share Posted 11 May , 2006 Tim G'day mate Great use of the records and good bio. Just to add only a few things to your excellent summary. At Gallipoli, Ashburner's star really shone high. He was considered to be the de facto leader of the machine gun section of the 9th LHR. It was he who did th training and also the gun laying work. Indeed, he was relied on for most anythng to do with the MG's by Lt Col "Itchy" Grant. The irony is that stealing Driscoll's binoculars was just plain dumb. I am not quite sure how that event went however, if the sentence was remitted then there is more to the story than officially told. Driscoll went onto become a Lieutenant with the 9th while at the sidelines, in the 4th MGS, Ashburner could only seeth. His subsequent record of convictions tell of a very angry person. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 11 May , 2006 Share Posted 11 May , 2006 I also found a 26 page file (digitized) at the Australian National Archive site which is a request for permission by Clifford Ashburner for his wife (Elizabeth Christiana) to join him in Australia. It originates in 1919 and continues until mid 1920 when I suppose she finally made the journey. What happened to her after this is still a mystery but he remarried in 1923. Here's one of the digitized pages written by Clifford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frev Posted 12 May , 2006 Share Posted 12 May , 2006 Russel, Here's a bit of info for you: Tim L. Tim - you are an expert at 'understatement' Not bad at research either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Russel SA Posted 12 May , 2006 Share Posted 12 May , 2006 Tim - you are an expert at 'understatement' Not bad at research either I'm stunned. Clifford Connell William Ernest Ashburner is now becomming a man that my family never knew here in South africa. I am extremely grateful for your information and will pass it on to my family. Unfortunately my mother passed away a couple of years ago and I would have loved to have told her about her father that she knew very little about. As I have found the location of his grave, I hope i may visit it someday, or maybe my son Kevin will be able to do this. I served with the SA Defence Force in 1972-1973 as a medic and was back as a permanent force member in 1987-1989 as a Captain in the SA Medical Corps (I am a medical microbiologist). Seems the military is in our blood. Many thanks to you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 15 May , 2006 Share Posted 15 May , 2006 Russel G'day mate Just one final thing - a pic of Ashburner as a corporal in the 9th LH MG Section taken in January 1915 at Broadmeadows. Hope this helps Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 15 May , 2006 Share Posted 15 May , 2006 Well done Bill. It's been bugging me that I couldn't find a photo so I'm glad one of us managed it. You've obviously got a few more resources on hand than I have. Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard_Lewis Posted 15 May , 2006 Share Posted 15 May , 2006 Shows again - a superb site with superb members. Don't suppose you can tell me what Saturday's lottery numbers will be? You seem to know everything else between you... Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Russel SA Posted 29 May , 2006 Share Posted 29 May , 2006 My thanks to you all. Been away for two weeks and pleasantly surprised by the picture. Russel Mills South Africa Grandson of Sgt Clifford Ashburner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 30 May , 2006 Share Posted 30 May , 2006 My pleasure Russel - hope you get to know your GF better as a consequence. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rksimpson Posted 1 January , 2013 Share Posted 1 January , 2013 Hi Just a quick question on his service papers, page 4 It mentions 6 months I.H.L. , I gather hl is hard labour, but what does the I stand for, can amyone help? regards Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilly100 Posted 4 January , 2013 Share Posted 4 January , 2013 Russell Ashburner was interviewed by CEW Bean (AWM38 3DRL 606 item 32 ) the official war historian and later majority writer of the excellent Official History of Australia in the War 1914-1918. Ashburner is mentioned in a footnote in Vol 2 on page 624 of that history series (available online). We have quoted his words in our book on the 10th Light Horse Regiment - Gallipoli to Tripoli on page 112. Ashburner was prominent with MG's up on Russell's Top on both 30 June and 7 August 1915. He was MID as already mentioned. No mention of him in the 9th Light Horse unit history that I could find. Ashburner said to Bean, about the charge at The Nek on 7 August 1915 "The first and 2nd lines went out running-charging. The 3rd line bent, with rifles on guard walking. When they got as far as the knoll they turned, and those who could get back to the trenches did so. Then a long time before the last lot." He was positioned behind and to the left at Turk's Point, expending some significant amounts of ammo in support of the 8th and 10th Light Horse. He would have been there on 30 June as well, when the Turks made their big charge, which also failed. Good hunting! By the way - Bill Woerlee has vast knowledge on the 9th Light Horse, as you can see from above posts. A new regimental history on the 9th Light Horse is just screaming to be done, many would say. Cheers Ian Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 4 January , 2013 Share Posted 4 January , 2013 Robert, Imprisonment. Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rksimpson Posted 4 January , 2013 Share Posted 4 January , 2013 Hi Tim Thanks for that regards Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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