Queen's Royal West Surrey Regt.

[Peter J]

I am currently researching my Great Uncle: G/78582, Pte. Charles James Jones, Queen’s Royal West Surrey Regiment.

From the records at 1837online.com, the ‘supplementary notes’ show that he was formerly 325105, 3rd City of London Rifles.

Could anyone please advise me as to why he served in both of these regiments and what information (if any) may be ascertained from either of his Regiment Numbers?

Uncle Charles was 18 years old when he died on 3rd October 1918 (five or so weeks from the end of the war) so what is the earliest (age or year) he would have been allowed to join the Army?

Many thanks in advance

Peter J

[MIDMED]

Hello Peter

The City of London Rifles were the 6th city of London Battalion, The London Regt.(Territorial) , . After mid 1916 six digit service numbers were issued to the Territorials in the army reforms taking place at this time.Your Great uncle's service No would seem to indicate he did not serve with them but with the 7th City of London battalion The London Regt as service No's above 320001 were issued to the 7th. However the numbers issued is not an exact sience but whatever the case he probably undertook his basic training with London Regt Reserve or training units before being posted overseas for general service with the 6th Battalion The Queens Regt. During the last year of the war the age limit for overseas service was reduced to 18 yrs very many of these unmarried young boys were killed and wounded in the last year of the war.

Best

Tom.....

P.S The above may show he was called up or enlisted in the London area at 17 yrs old

[Peter J]

Hello Tom,

Thank you so much for your reply. I’m always extremely impressed by the knowledge you fellows possess and by how readily you all impart what you know for the benefit of we lesser mortals.

We know so little about Charles; he was my Grandfather's eldest brother and died when my Grandfather was just 2 years old.

I’m interested to learn that the age limit was changed to 18 for overseas service in the last year of the war; can you tell me what it had been previously?

Also, are you able to advise me as to where I can find more information regarding service numbers for this period?

Many, many thanks,

Peter.

[Hambo]

Peter

What other information have you got? I have the Regimental history but details of October are few as the Battalion was on the move throughout the month but I will shortly be travelling up to have a look at the war diaries and will check the dates for what may have happened to him

Do you have his details from SDGW? I looked it up last night and he was born and lived in Bow and enlisted in Shoreditch. You may of course already know all this but if there are others pieces we can add to his story please let us know

Hambo

[Peter J]

Hello Hambo,

Thanks very much for your interest. I do indeed have the details you looked up last night but very little else unfortunately.

Not sure how pertinent this is but I’m quite certain that he lived in Cantrell Road, Bow, East London and that his Father (my Great Grandfather) who was also named Charles James Jones, died as a result of his wounds. I have no idea which regiment C.J.J. Sr. might have served with, neither am I certain yet which year he died, though I do know it was somewhere around 1917-1919.

As you will have seen, C.J.J. Jr. was formerly with 3rd City of London Rifles (service number 325105) where (MIDMED has kindly informed me) he would probably have undergone training before being posted overseas.

He is interred in Abbeville Communal Cemetery Extension, in the Somme. Please click here and scroll down to Uncle Charles. Unfortunately I believe the inscription upon his headstone bearing his service number is incorrect. The records at 1837online and at the NA show his number as having the prefix ‘G’, whereas the headstone shows it as having the prefix ‘C’.

I have a copy of his Medal Roll Index Card (attached) but other than that, there is very little else at the moment.

It’s very kind of you to offer to look up information contained within the war diaries; I only wish I had something to offer you kind gentlemen in return for all your expert knowledge and advice.

[Hambo]

Peter

have you got any more information on Charles Sr. There are 162 Charles Joneses on SDGW I have one born in Bow who died in 1915 but you seem pretty certain he died later. Any additional info would help track him down age residence etc

Hambo

[Peter J]

Hello Hambo,

I have always been led to believe that my Grandfather born in 1913 (son of CJJ Sr and younger brother of CJJ Jr) was 3 or 4 years old when CJJ Sr died. However, it is quite possible that he could have been younger I suppose. It's not entirely impossible that Sr died in 1915, which would make my Grandfather 2.

As far as we know, Sr was born 17-12-1880 or 1881. He lived in Cantrell Road, Bow and we are told by his only surviving son that he is buried at Tower Hamlets Cemetery Park (aka Bow Cemetery) Southern Grove E3. However, he seems to think that the year of his death was 1919.

162 Charles Joneses! It's an exclusive club alright. Are they all Charles J. Jones, or just Charles Jones?

Thanks again.

Here he is (this is the only known photograph of him):

[Edit: 07/12/2010 - Since submitting this post, Charles's date of death has been established as 25th February 1921, at 14 Pembridge Square, Bayswater, London].

[Hambo]

I've just had a look at the CWGC website for a Charles James Jones who died in 1919 and no one matches his description. The man on SDGW was born in Bow but lived in Grays in Essex. The only Jones living in Bow other than Charles Jr was Charles Harry so thats no good either

The best suggestion is to find his grave in Bow. I work no a million miles from there so if anyone knows where it is I'll pop down and see if I can find him