SuziejMartin Posted 27 April , 2006 Share Posted 27 April , 2006 I am having trouble in understanding my Great Uncles medal card. Just before WW1 he was a member of the Royal Artillery Band based at Woolwich. I know that he was killed during WW1, I have been told that he ship he was on was mined but I can't find any details. How would I go about finding records of an Army death at sea. I am not sure that I have the correct medal card but it does list the soldier as being a musician and gunner. Can any one advise please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Burns Posted 27 April , 2006 Share Posted 27 April , 2006 CWGC J. Welsh Above is a link to the CWGC search for all J. Wlesh casualties, I do not see a match with the service number on the MIC, but I may have missed it. If he died at sea, he should be commemorated by the CWGC so he should be amongst these search results. Good Luck, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Samson Posted 27 April , 2006 Share Posted 27 April , 2006 Couldn't find a match on the CWGC site either nor on the SDGW (Soldiers Died in the Great War) CD-ROM. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuziejMartin Posted 27 April , 2006 Author Share Posted 27 April , 2006 Hi Neil I've had a look at the link, I have found a John Leslie Welsh, G/18770 (what does the G stand for?). It mentions the Royal Sussex Regiment, 11th Battalion. Would an R A Band soldier from woolwich be in this regiment? Cheers Susie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuziejMartin Posted 27 April , 2006 Author Share Posted 27 April , 2006 Couldn't find a match on the CWGC site either nor on the SDGW (Soldiers Died in the Great War) CD-ROM. Gary Thanks for checking the CD Gary. He is a complete mystery. I know for definite that he was born John Leslie Russell Welsh. I have a postcard which he sent to his brother from New Zealand in Mar 1914 when he was touring NZ with the RA Band. A further card dated 14/3/1914 was from Tenerieffe saying he was on his way back to Woolwich. He signed himself JACK WELCH RA Band I know he died at some stage in the war, his wife committed suicide whilst grieving for him leaving orphaned children. She lived in the Woolwich/ Charlton area. May be he wasn't killed in action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Samson Posted 27 April , 2006 Share Posted 27 April , 2006 I've had a look at the link, I have found a John Leslie Welsh, G/18770 (what does the G stand for?). John Leslie WELSH was born at Chalk Farm, Middlesex and enlisted at Willesden. SDGW lists him as KIA on 10 March 1918. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 27 April , 2006 Share Posted 27 April , 2006 (edited) I know for definite that he was born John Leslie Russell Welsh. I have a postcard which he sent to his brother from New Zealand in Mar 1914 when he was touring NZ with the RA Band. A further card dated 14/3/1914 was from Tenerieffe saying he was on his way back to Woolwich. Mistakes could be made with the records, so you need to check all the combinations of his names! It was unusual (but not unknown) for artillerymen to move to the infantry and that move might have not been correctly documented resulting in the cards for John and John Leslie and then possible that the CWGC entry would only show his R Sussex R details. So did that residence and palce of birth match and is it possible? There seems to be a technical hitch with the post cards. I don't see how he could be both in New Zealand and Tenerieffe in March 1914, it was a physical impossability. I doubt if there was an aircraft that could fly to Tenerieffe, there were definately none that could fly him to New Zealand! I don't know of any passages to NZ from Tenerieffe that took 17 days at that time. As the legendary Scotty put it 'you cannae alter the laws of physics!' The card from the RGA man shows him with a 1914/15 Star, and he entered France October 1915. I would expect a pre war regular to have entered France long before that, most likely in 1914. Researching soldiers is explained on the main site, either you or someone else will have to go to Kew. Do you have his memorial plaque or scroll? Edited 27 April , 2006 by per ardua per mare per terram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuziejMartin Posted 28 April , 2006 Author Share Posted 28 April , 2006 Hello there My mistake!! The first postcard was sent from Auckland on the 16/01/1914. The second and final card was sent from Teneriffe, it looks like 4/4/14. March must have stuck in my head because he said they would leave for England in about March, but he arrived in Teneriffe on 14th March which was his brothers birthday. John (Jack) was bornon the 28th February 1886 in Charlton, registration district Woolwich in the county of Kent. I have no idea about 'Chalk Farm'. I thought that as he was a member of The Band of the Royal Regiment of Artillery he would be easier to trace. I know from an article that I have read that 'the Band toured extensively particularly during both world wars. One tour found the Band travelling in New Zealand from October 1913 untilMarch 1914, arriving back at Woolwich just before the outbreak of war in 1914.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 29 April , 2006 Share Posted 29 April , 2006 Ok that clears that up! Chalk Farm is in North London, I've passed through or near to Charlton regularly. There're over 10 miles apart with the Thames in the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuziejMartin Posted 29 April , 2006 Author Share Posted 29 April , 2006 Ok that clears that up! Chalk Farm is in North London, I've passed through or near to Charlton regularly. There're over 10 miles apart with the Thames in the way! Well that would seem to rule John Leslie - G/18770 - out, particularly as you thought it unusual for an artillery man to join the infantry. I really can't think where JOHN Leslie Russell Welsh, born 28/02/1886, (aka Jack Welch) got to. How am I going to set about finding him with so little to go on? Might he have been a deserter.. Cheers Susie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinglma Posted 30 April , 2006 Share Posted 30 April , 2006 Might he have been a deserter.. Cheers Susie If he was he would still have a medal index card in all likelihood. Just because a man deserted doesn't mean he disappeared off the records. In the case of deserters the forfeiture of their medals is normally recorded on the cards. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 1 May , 2006 Share Posted 1 May , 2006 MICs were for keeping track of the issue of medals, and being a deserter would affect the issue of medals! I've seen cards to deserters, this is written in the remarks section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 4 May , 2006 Share Posted 4 May , 2006 HG Farmer in his 'History of the Royal Artillery Band' wrote that 44 members entered France for the 1st time 20 December 1915, until then they'd been in England. He also mentions that after a tussle, the War Office agreed to issue them with the 1914/15 Star. As he was signing himself 'Jack Welch' there may have been another John Welsh in the pre war band, but you have a 1 in 44 chance that this is the card of your great uncle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilbury Welsh Posted 13 May , 2006 Share Posted 13 May , 2006 Suzie, without putting oil on troubled waters John Welsh/Welch is a very common name. My grandfather was a John Welsh and he was in the RFA although I don't think he played in the regimental band. Perhaps just the spoons...... Researching that family line pre-1900 the records for my family are a mish-mash of Welsh or Welch and it started originally from Cork as Walsh! Good hunting John Welsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuziejMartin Posted 17 May , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 May , 2006 Suzie, without putting oil on troubled waters John Welsh/Welch is a very common name. My grandfather was a John Welsh and he was in the RFA although I don't think he played in the regimental band. Perhaps just the spoons...... Researching that family line pre-1900 the records for my family are a mish-mash of Welsh or Welch and it started originally from Cork as Walsh! Good hunting John Welsh Hi John Yes, I know what you mean! My Wech's seemed to change with My great x2 grandad Albert, and then his son decided to use Welch. I have always known my name as Welsh. We too have a rumoured Irich Connection, may be Walsh's too! Cheers Susie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilbury Welsh Posted 17 May , 2006 Share Posted 17 May , 2006 [] Hi John Yes, I know what you mean! My Wech's seemed to change with My great x2 grandad Albert, and then his son decided to use Welch. I have always known my name as Welsh. We too have a rumoured Irich Connection, may be Walsh's too! Cheers Susie Hi Susie, I think all Walsh/Welch/Welsh families are probably Irish in origin Going back to your family what you have to understand is the man that held the pen spelt the surname more often than not as he thought it should be and sometimes spelt it as it sounded. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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