George Brown 182 Co Labour Corps

[brownegaz]

Hello Everyone this is my first post on this amazing forum.

I am trying to find information on my grandfather George Lewis Brown who was born on 6 May 1897 at Mile End Old Town in County of London I understand he enlisted at Kenington on 2 April 1914 but have no idea which Regiment or Corps he joined however he was discharged from 182 Coy Labour Corps on 10 August 1919 at Nottingham, his Regimental number was 572308 and there is a Character Certificate number 7Z2-648-B.

He was a carpenter in civilian life and left England for Western Australia in 1927 he died in 1967.

Any information about George or where the 182 Labour Corps served during the war would be appreciated.

Thank you

brownegaz

[the gunners dream]

Hi there,

This is his medal card which you can download from the PRO for £3.50. It also shows he served in the Royal Field Artillery.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=1

There is not much out there on the Labour corps, but this link will help you:

http://www.1914-1918.net/labour.htm

Steve

[brownegaz]

Hi there,

This is his medal card which you can download from the PRO for £3.50. It also shows he served in the Royal Field Artillery.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=1

There is not much out there on the Labour corps, but this link will help you:

http://www.1914-1918.net/labour.htm

Steve

Thanks Steve for your prompt reply

Could you please tell me what a medal card is and what information I can get off it etc I am very new to this and also had no idea he was in the Royal Field Artillery. Can you tell me why servicemen had different regimental numbers, I would have thought once you were in the Army you kept the same number??

brownegaz

[brownegaz]

Thanks Steve for your prompt reply

Could you please tell me what a medal card is and what information I can get off it etc I am very new to this and also had no idea he was in the Royal Field Artillery. Can you tell me why servicemen had different regimental numbers, I would have thought once you were in the Army you kept the same number??

brownegaz

i have downloaded the medal card and it shows medal records for Victory Roll B LC/101 215 page 21845 and a mention of what appears to be a sub list LC/5179

If anyone can enlighten me on what this all means I would very much appreciate it

brownegaz

[the gunners dream]

Hi there,

There are some very useful bits of info on this link regarding the medal card:

http://www.1914-1918.net/mics.htm

His service number changed because he moved from one army unit to another.

Steve

[Stebie9173]

brownegaz

He would have been entitled to the victory Medal and almost certainly the British War Medal (there is probably a line or ditto underneath the Victory Medal references?)

These numbers can often be referred back to Medal Rolls at the National Archives. Unfortunately, most RFA rolls don't give much detail and the Labour Corps ones are largely lost.

"sub list" is actually SWB list. The Medal rolls for the Silver War Badge (SWB) that was given to servicemen who were discharged from duty (often because of sickness or wounds).

These can usually be referenced at the National Archives, though only on site, and will tell you when he enlisted, when he was discharged and the unit discharged from (though sometimes this was a UK Reserve unit, rather than his actual overseas unit). I'm not sure whether or not the Labour Corps Rolls are available.

George's RFA unit was a Territorial unit. These were all renumbered in early 1917 and new numbers issued.

These two units used numbers in George's range:

950001-955000 235 BDE, RFA TF/ 1/5 LONDON BDE

950001-955000 300 BDE, RFA TF/ 2/5 LONDON (BROKEN UP AUG 16)

(i) CCXXXV (235) Brigade Territorial Force 1st Line 47th Division from pre-war. Redesignated from V London Brigade May 1916. Batteries from Kennington and Paddington.

http://www.1914-1918.net/47div.htm

(ii) CCXCVIII (H) (300) Territorial Force 2nd Line 59th Division from formation in February 1915 to November 1918. Originally designated 2/4th North Midland Brigade. Originally A and B (H) Batts. Late May 1916 joined by 3 (H) Batt, LIX, which took designation C(H). All betteries left on 19 July 1916, being replaced by the D Batteries from the other 3 Brigades of the Division, at which time this Brigade lost its (H) distinction. Became an Army Brigade on 4 April 1917, after arriving in France.

http://www.1914-1918.net/59div.htm

235th Brigade went overseas in 1915 so if George was in that unit then he may have served with the 2nd Line unit for a while before going overseas.

There are other men with similar numbers in the same units. Looking at these two men:

Medal card of Cubison, Ronald Powis

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Field Artillery 1752 Corporal

Royal Field Artillery 950637 Corporal

Medal card of Howell, Henry

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Field Artillery 1754 Driver

Royal Field Artillery 950639 Driver

Note that the 6-digit numbers are either side of George's and the other numbers are in sequence. This is not uncommon. This would imply that George's earlier number before the 1917 renumbering was "1753".

Can you double check that the number is definitely 950638 on the original, please?

The fact that he enlisted in Kennington would suggest that he enlisted into the 5th London Brigade. Just need to work out if he stayed there or was transferred...

Steve.

[brownegaz]

brownegaz

He would have been entitled to the victory Medal and almost certainly the British War Medal (there is probably a line or ditto underneath the Victory Medal references?)

These numbers can often be referred back to Medal Rolls at the National Archives. Unfortunately, most RFA rolls don't give much detail and the Labour Corps ones are largely lost.

"sub list" is actually SWB list. The Medal rolls for the Silver War Badge (SWB) that was given to servicemen who were discharged from duty (often because of sickness or wounds).

These can usually be referenced at the National Archives, though only on site, and will tell you when he enlisted, when he was discharged and the unit discharged from (though sometimes this was a UK Reserve unit, rather than his actual overseas unit). I'm not sure whether or not the Labour Corps Rolls are available.

George's RFA unit was a Territorial unit. These were all renumbered in early 1917 and new numbers issued.

These two units used numbers in George's range:

950001-955000 235 BDE, RFA TF/ 1/5 LONDON BDE

950001-955000 300 BDE, RFA TF/ 2/5 LONDON (BROKEN UP AUG 16)

(i) CCXXXV (235) Brigade Territorial Force 1st Line 47th Division from pre-war. Redesignated from V London Brigade May 1916. Batteries from Kennington and Paddington.

http://www.1914-1918.net/47div.htm

(ii) CCXCVIII (H) (300) Territorial Force 2nd Line 59th Division from formation in February 1915 to November 1918. Originally designated 2/4th North Midland Brigade. Originally A and B (H) Batts. Late May 1916 joined by 3 (H) Batt, LIX, which took designation C(H). All betteries left on 19 July 1916, being replaced by the D Batteries from the other 3 Brigades of the Division, at which time this Brigade lost its (H) distinction. Became an Army Brigade on 4 April 1917, after arriving in France.

http://www.1914-1918.net/59div.htm

235th Brigade went overseas in 1915 so if George was in that unit then he may have served with the 2nd Line unit for a while before going overseas.

There are other men with similar numbers in the same units. Looking at these two men:

Medal card of Cubison, Ronald Powis

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Field Artillery 1752 Corporal

Royal Field Artillery 950637 Corporal

Medal card of Howell, Henry

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Field Artillery 1754 Driver

Royal Field Artillery 950639 Driver

Note that the 6-digit numbers are either side of George's and the other numbers are in sequence. This is not uncommon. This would imply that George's earlier number before the 1917 renumbering was "1753".

Can you double check that the number is definitely 950638 on the original, please?

The fact that he enlisted in Kennington would suggest that he enlisted into the 5th London Brigade. Just need to work out if he stayed there or was transferred...

Steve.

Thanks for your infrmation Steve I have rechecked the medal card and it is possible that Georges Reg No in RFA was 950658 if you give me your email address I will send you a copy so you can see exactly what I have.My email address is

brownegaz@aapt.net.au.

Thanks for your assistance is tracing Geoges past.

brownegaz

[Stebie9173]

Looking at the 950658 number:

Medal card of Beck, Frederick Charles

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Field Artillery 1789 Driver

Royal Field Artillery 950656 Driver

950657 doesn't appear, nor 950659. These men perhaps didn't serve overseas.

Medal card of Pearce, Robert

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Field Artillery 1794 Gunner

Royal Field Artillery 950660 Gunner

This would suggest that George Brown's earlier number was one from:

1790, 1791, 1792 or 1793.

The reason for "messing about" with these numbers is that sometimes the soldier would have two medal cards with different numbers on them. One for his Victory & British War Medals, and another for his 1914 or 1914-15 Star.

In this case, I can't find a soldier with a similar name under these numbers so it would seem that he may well have gone overseas after 1-1-1916.

It's usually worth making sure that there aren't any odd cards lost in the system. (The cards usually get separated if names can't be matched)

Steve.