DaveMurphy Posted 24 April , 2006 Share Posted 24 April , 2006 Good evening all, I have recently come across two of my Great-Grandfathers Medals, and would like some help in finding further information about them. As they both served in British Regiments, and I am in Sydney, my chances of getting to the MOD any time soon are fairly slim! The first is my father's grandfather, Private Joseph Murphy. I have his pair of medals. His inscribed service number is S-22648. He served with the Gordon's Highlanders, and I believe he fought and was wounded on the Somme, not sure when. The second is my mother's grandfather CAPT J T Ball. I have little information except that from which I can gain from his medals. They are: Military Cross (no inscription or date; GR initials on front), Queens South Africa Medal (with clasps various), King's South Africa Medal (1901 & 1902), 1914-15 Star, pair with MID oakleaf, and a good conduct & long service medal. His service number was 3669. The ranks inscribed range from SERJT to CAPT. I found one of his medal cards (attached) which said very little, except that his rank was Honorary LEUT and Quartermaster. I have also searched the London Gazette for his MC but have not found any info. Any information would be appreciated, or just a nudge in the right direction! Kind regards, Dave Murphy Lieutenant, Royal Australian Navy HMAS Watson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 24 April , 2006 Share Posted 24 April , 2006 Let's organise things a bit: John Thomas Ball His campaign medals card: Medal card of Ball, John Thomas Corps Regiment No Rank Manchester Regiment Quarter Master Lieutenant Manchester Regiment Quarter Master Captain http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...&resultcount=39 Two cards, probably one or more Mention in Despatches. Description Medal card of Ball, J T Corps Regiment No Rank Manchester Regiment Temporary Quarter Master and Honorary Lieutenant Catalogue reference WO 372/24 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...&resultcount=39 Description Medal card of Ball, J T Corps Regiment No Rank Manitoba Regiment Temporary Quarter Master and Honorary Lieutenant Date 1914-1920 Catalogue reference WO 372/24 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...&resultcount=39 The "Manitoba" Regiment is probably a mis-transcription of Manchester. ---- His MC announcement in the London Gazette of 1-1-1918. Qr.-Mr. and T./Hon. Lt. John Thomas Ball, Manch. R. http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType= This is a New Year's Honour, for which citations were not published. ---- His commission: London Gazette 1-4-1915 The Manchester Regiment. 16th Battalion (1st City)— John Thomas Ball to be temporary Quartermaster, with the honorary rank of Lieutenant. Dated 11th March, 1915. http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType= ---- LG 21-5-1918 GENERAL LIST. The undermentioned temp. Qrmrs. and Hon. Lts. to be Hon. Capts.: — J. T. Ball, M.C. 11th Mar. 1918. http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType= ---- LG 2-1-1919 GENERAL LIST. Infantry.— Temp. Qrmr. and 'Capt. J. T. Ball, M.C., relinquishes his commission on ceasing to be empld., and retains his rank. 1st Jan. 1919. http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType= --- Providing that he went overseas with the 16th Manchesters, he would have been in 30th Division for most of the war: http://www.1914-1918.net/30div.htm There are plenty of Manchester Regiment experts here, so I will pass the baton on at this point, I think. (Normally one would have to visit the National Archives at Kew to look at the QSA and KSA Medal Rolls, but I think one or two people here will have a copy.) Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 24 April , 2006 Share Posted 24 April , 2006 Other Ranks aren't as easy to dig up information for online, but in case you don'y have it: Joseph Murphy Medal card: Medal card of Murphy, Joseph Corps Regiment No Rank Gordon Highlanders S/22648 Private http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=1 Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 24 April , 2006 Share Posted 24 April , 2006 He was, indeed, one of the original members of 16/Manc who went overseas in November 1915, then as Lieutenant and Quarter Master. The only mention of him in the Battalion History is as follows: A few words here with reference to the two officers who served the longest with the Battalion may not be out of place. "Capt R Knowles and Captain and QM J T Ball MC for some two years in France were in happy accord as Transport Officer and QM respectively. These two were in no small part responsible for maintaining of a high spirit of morale in all ranks, both in and out of the line. An army fights on its stomach and an army hangs on to the battered trenches and water-logged shell holes on its stomach and not once during the whole of the time did rations fail to materialise. In the midst of an attack with but the scantiest of detail as to where the Battalion was to be found, the TO or QM or both appeared at the appointed time full of smiles and goo-cheer – and in the middle of the battle of Trones Wood the QM arrived on his black prehistoric circus horse with bottles of rum slung around him. It was thought that the lot of the Transport and QM Stores was alittle bit of heaven as compared with the front line but pitch dark nights, imperfect tracks, continuously swept by long range machine gun fire and here and there a special “hate” from all the enemy guns within range, did not conduce to too great a feeling of ease and comfort…… …..Up to march 21st, Captain and QM Ball continued his splendid work but on that day he was severely wounded whilst attending to the clearing of the stores from the village of Etreillers, and even then it was only under compulsion that he was despatched in an ambulance to hospital, his one wish being to get at the Boche – not away from them. Hospital claimed him till some months after the Armistice so that he was unable to rejoin and help finish the war in which he had seen so much service and done so much to uphold the efficiency of the Sixteeenth.” The Battalion History is available from Naval & Military Press and round about £20 (full title is “16th, 17th, 18th, & 19th battalions, the Manchester Regiment”. Catchy, eh? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMurphy Posted 24 April , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2006 John, Steve, Thank you very much, both superb replies... Is there anywhere that the citation for the MC might be detailed? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMurphy Posted 24 April , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2006 Also, Not being an expert on Imperial Honours, what was the length of service required for the 'Long Service & Good Conduct Medal' Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 24 April , 2006 Share Posted 24 April , 2006 Long Service Good Conduct Medal: http://www.kotfsc.com/aviation/decorations/alsgcm.htm Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 24 April , 2006 Share Posted 24 April , 2006 Is there anywhere that the citation for the MC might be detailed? Dave As Steve said, the citation for New Years awards arent published. Almost certainly, he'll have been awarded it for being an all round good and useful bloke , rather than an individual act of gallantry. A recognition of his service, if you like. Always worth having a nosy at his service file at the National Archives if you are ever handy for Kew. Similarly, a phone call (or visit) to the Regimental Archives at Ashton under Lyne might be worthwhile. But don't hold your breath for a citation. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 24 April , 2006 Share Posted 24 April , 2006 Dave, To be honest, the excerpt that John posted on him is worth a couple of Medal Citations in itself. Anyone who crossed the 1,000 yard gap between the British Front Line and Trones Wood on a horse (I am reading that right, aren't I, John?) in early July 1916 deserves any plaudits going to him - especially if he was carrying the rum ration! I've seen a fair few citations that amount to "Did good work", all thoroughly deserved, but often not that enlightening in retrospect. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 24 April , 2006 Share Posted 24 April , 2006 Steve Yes. You're reading that right. If it was me, those rum bottles would have empty and I'd have been too pi**ed to stay on me horse. The report from 17/Manc describes it as a worse enemy artillery inferno that 1 July. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMurphy Posted 24 April , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2006 Steve, John, Thank you both very much, your assistance has been invaluable. BTW John, is there a good online resource for info on the Regiment during the Boer War? Kind regards, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 24 April , 2006 Share Posted 24 April , 2006 Hi Dave If you can get your hands on a copy of the book "The Diary of an Unprofessional Soldier" by T.A.M. Nash. Its the true story of Capt T.A.H. Nash 16th Battn Manchester Regt, it gives a very good ancount of the 16th Batt. He was one of the original officers, & there is a very good photo of your G/F near the back of the book with the rest of the officers he is next to Capt (Lt Col ) Elstob VC (post) DSO, MC. If you PM me I will e-mail the Photo I also have the War Diary & medal roll for the Batt. Cheers Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 25 April , 2006 Share Posted 25 April , 2006 if it was me carrying those rum jars,i would have emptied em and carried the bleedin horse home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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