stiletto_33853 Posted 14 May , 2006 Share Posted 14 May , 2006 With the help of brigade re-inforcements the new line on the edge of the woods was held, and at 11.30a.m., by order from VI Corps, Major-General V. Couper made arrangements for an assault at 2.45p.m. to recover lost ground. It was to be carried out by both 41st and 42nd brigades after three quarters of an hour's bombardment by the divisional artillery and No2 Group Heavy Artillery Reserve - feeble indeed after the German tornado, but still, serving to encourage the assault. So much for the Official History. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 14 May , 2006 Share Posted 14 May , 2006 The counter attack was unsuccessful. The War Diary for the 7th K.R.R.C. says of Captain Radcliffe that he was mortally wounded, I will send these too you as they will not come out very well downsized for the forum. I have many many accounts of the action from the 7th & 8th Rifle Brigade but only Regimental and War Diary accounts for the K.R.R.C. I hope that this has helped you a little. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 14 May , 2006 Share Posted 14 May , 2006 Aerial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 15 May , 2006 Share Posted 15 May , 2006 The top of the fence line, about the centre of Hooge Crater Cemetery is approx the edge of Zuoave Wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raymon Posted 15 May , 2006 Share Posted 15 May , 2006 well Andy this isnt a little help you've given me but a BIG LOT of help. this is info that i never dreamt of getting . Many thanks to you my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 15 May , 2006 Share Posted 15 May , 2006 Raymon, Glad that it was of use, KRRC not my strong point. If he had been a RB officer in the 7th or 8th Battalion I could have given you an awful lot more. I will e mail copies of the 7th KRRC War Diary of to you shortly. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 15 May , 2006 Share Posted 15 May , 2006 Raymon, After the accoint from the Official History the Annals of the Kings Royal Rifle Corps goes on to say:- To the Historian of thee Great War the above is an account of a comparitively trivial incident of trench warfare, not affecting the general scheme; a small section of trench line lost and partly regained, with no effect on the tactical situation; at most another unhappy instance of useless loss of life owing to blind insistence by anhigher commander, out of touch with the situation, on compliance with a hide bound rule that every loss of ground must be met by an immediate counter attack without any consideration of its chances of success; the result being losses to ourselves out of all proportion to those inflicted on the enemy, an unfailing way to lose a war of attrition if followed by sufficient obstinancy. To us it means much more. It means the first great trial of the New Army battalions - a trial in which they showed that in courage and devotion they were the equals of any of their predecessors in the Regiment. No veteran troops could have shown greater tenacity than did the 7th Battalion when the line on their left hed been penetrated and they were attacked on three sides at once. Nothing in the First or Second Ypres was more resolute than the counter attack made by battalions which had only just been relieved after a particularly arduous time in the trenches. The ground over which they attacked had not a vestage of cover, the three quarters of an hours preliminary bombardment had been devoid of effect, no one, from the Divisional Commander downwards, could have had any hope of success - General Nugent had, on the loss of the trenches, at once reported that it would want a Division to retake them - but the new battalions went forward as if they were determined to show that when called upon they could give their lives as freely as those whose blood had already soaked the ground for which they were fighting. At 3.30 p.m. Nugent, seeing that persistence in the attack meant the loss of what remained of his brigade, ordered its suspension, and the attacking battalions were rallied on the edges of Sanctuary and Zouave Woods. The 41st Brigade was relieved after dark by the 43rd, but in the small hours of the 31st the Germans made a fresh attack with liquid fire, and the remnants of the 41st, which had only just reached their bivouac, were recalled to the firing line. The attack was repulsed, but the Brigade remained in the front line ubder constant sheel fire, adding to their losses, till they were finally relieved on the afternoon of the 31st. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 15 May , 2006 Share Posted 15 May , 2006 The casualties of the three battalions for July 30 and 31 were:- 7th Battalion Killed Captain G.C. Dowling Lieutenant F. Seymour Lieutenant S.H. Snellgrove Lieutenant A.B. Findlay 2nd Lieutenant R.B. Arnell 2nd Lieutenant R.F. Robinson 2nd Lieutenant R. Longbottom Died of Wounds Captain J.D.H. Radcliffe 2nd Lieutenant G.F. Carter Wounded Captain and Adjutant A.P. Evans Captain H.M.B. de Sales La Terriere Lieutenant G.H. Gibson 2nd Lieutenant H.W.N. Lawrence Ohter Ranks Total Casualties 289 The losses of the 8th Rifle Brigade were heaviest of all, being 19 Officers and 462 Other Ranks. Mainly dealing with the counter attack but a little extra for you. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 15 May , 2006 Share Posted 15 May , 2006 Trying to find the reference at the moment but after the counter attack Kitchener, at a dinner with Lady Desborough (who lost her son in the 8th Rifle Brigade on this day) in attendance, remarked that this episode was a lesson in how not to launch a counter attack. Giving the Germans some considerable time to consolidate and bring up 9 machine guns. Couper, the Divisional general got his knighthood though. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raymon Posted 16 May , 2006 Share Posted 16 May , 2006 Andy, Capt. Radcliffe is listed on the menin gate memorial does this mean he has now known grave?, en if so how can this be ?. we know when he died, the date and so on, the place so do you have any info for me on this?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 16 May , 2006 Share Posted 16 May , 2006 Raymon, If he is listed there then he has no known grave. It happened to a lot of the RB men who lost their lives in this action to. Quite often they were buried near were they fell which was an active battlefield for some time afterwards. The location of the graves were sometimes lost or churned up in the continual artillery firing that happened here for quite some time after. A lot of the men were buried in Sanctuary Wood Cemetery, even here you will find headstones saying "Buried near this Spot" Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 16 May , 2006 Share Posted 16 May , 2006 This is in Sanctuary Wood Cemetery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raymon Posted 16 May , 2006 Share Posted 16 May , 2006 for next year i am planning to see the battlefield where the krrc fought, maybe i can get some clues overthere . thanks Andy your a great friend!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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