another MOD question

[ebo]

I'm still awaiting the service record for my grandfather from the Army Historical Disclosures lot in Glasgow (posted in Feb!) It's only recently that I've realised that I'll be probably receiving a short account of his service, stating the main points, rather than a copy of the actual service records themselves. How brief is this likely to be? Why is it that they cant just copy the whole thing?

[andyspiller]

Hi

When I got my report from Hayes it extended to 2 whole pages! Bear in mind that this was for a guy's record from 1908 through 1938.

Andy

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

I'm still awaiting the service record for my grandfather from the Army Historical Disclosures lot in Glasgow (posted in Feb!)

Ebo - for goodness sake stop moaning - I'm still waiting for one sent in (and acknowledged) 22/9/2002 ! - I've chased it several times and they havent answered a single letter ............ but then I've been on MoD's blacklist for so long that I dont suppose anybody in the Ministry will ever speak to me again - who cares ? - and I can always console myself with the knowlege that whatever report they ever get round to issuing will probably not be worth the paper it's typed on.

Want to know how c**p they are ? - see >>>>>>>>>>>>>

http://www.btinternet.com/~prosearch/tomspage30.html

"Best" one I've ever had was an MoD "report" on a WW2 Gunner who was kia. First thing that struck me was the fact that CWGC database showed him named on a memorial in Greece but PRO (NA) indexes showed his unit (an AA Battery) as based in Italy at the time. When I checked the war diaries I found them to be a harbour defence unit, several hundred miles from the front, and the diarist recording such major events as - saw a 'plane in the distance - as being about as exciting as it got. "No casualties" was recorded in the weekly returns for a couple of months either side of the date on my man's death.

On that occasion I managed to bludgen MoD into sending me a copy of the man's military service sheet, and all was explained. Seems the clerk had either not seen (blind ?) or more likely had not understood some of the abbreviated notes, and had therefore ignored them - difficult things like "Attd" meaning attached - er, not with his own unit love, serving with another unit - ok, I know it's difficult, but do try to keep up - I have paid you £25 for this, remember.

When I looked at the diaries for the correct unit ........... there he was - name and number, and even the name, unit, and number of the man who had reported finding his body on a mountain track - during a massive three day raid on the eastern side of the Adriatic.

Give MoD their due though, I can see why they ignored the note about the unit the man was attached to (sorry, "attd") - a very obscure unit, a unit that you could never reasonably expect anybody in the Ministry responsible for Britain's defence ever to have heard of .............

The SAS (who on earth are they ?).

Regards - Tom

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Tom - An interesting link!!

One of my colleagues at work wrote to the MOD about his grandfather in 1982. They mentioned that he had been in the Royal Engineers and had been serving before WW1 and left the Army in 1930. What they didn't mention was that he had been awarded the DCM

Ian

[Tom Tulloch-Marshall]

Ian - I seem to recall that MoD started to put a (call it a) "disclaimer" on their reports saying that if you wanted to know about medals then get in touch with the Droitwich record office. In view of the fact that you were paying them for the "research" this seemed more than a little cheeky, especially as things like DCM's and MM's appear in the service records as a matter of course. With the service and gallantry medals you always had the fallback of making your own searches at NA / PRO - all well and good for those of us who are regular visitors, but zilch use to probably 99% of people who ever applied for an MoD report - your colleague for example.

During your own searches you have probably come across Officer's and OR's files which actually contain a copy of the MoD "report" which has been sent to the next of kin or some other relative - so you can compare side by side what the file actually contains and what the MoD have reported. Reading some of these I dont know whether to laugh or cry - and am constantly amazed at the monumental incompetence / laziness displayed by these so-called accounts of the servicemen's records. I regard MoD "reports" as nothing short of exercises in deception, and hate to imagine how many people have been duped over the years.

Thankfully that no longer applies to the WW1 service records - excepting of course that we still have all those Officers and OR's who were discharged after the early 20's .....

regards - Tom

[Terry]

Hello Pals,

When I look over your remarks I thank Heaven that the main focus of my collection has been the Canadian Expeditionary Force! I guess we Canadians have been spoiled. The National Archives; the Department of Veterans Affairs, the House of Commons pages from the Books of Remembrance,etc. While service may be a bit slow (weeks rather than months) it does exist.

A couple of months ago I contacted DVA about an individual who had the three medals for WW1 plus the silver Canadian Defence, CVSM, and War medals. To my surprise a few weeks later I received a 20-minute phone call from a very charming lady at DVA who had spent quite some time trying to track down this man's WW2 service but had not succeeded. I have his WW1 file but after that his service is a bit of a mystery.

This isn't the first time I have received a call from Ottawa regarding my requests. Always very helpful and courteous.

As I have expanded into 1914 groups to the BEF, the MIC is often the only research I am able to do other than unit histories,etc.

[Broznitsky]

I can't get over what a great service we Canucks get, Terry. Maybe we should pinch ourselves to make sure we're not dreaming. A couple of days ago I received a package with about 30 pages of free photocopies of a shipping roll, along with a nice letter. How can these people work for the federal government??

Maybe they've assembled all the best clerks into the NAC ?!?!

Peter (proud again)

[jhill]

I can't get over what a great service we Canucks get,

Broz

Without wanting to dampen your enthousiasm, I feel obliged to point out that perhaps the advantage we have in accessing Canadian records is not so much the customer service provided by the National Archives people, but rather the enlightened policy of putting most of the Attestation Papers (and other good stuff) freely available on the internet. Most people get all the information they need from the Attestation Paper. I mentioned this to other folks, who mentioned it to others, and all of a sudden, all sorts of ordinary, non-speciallist people were researching their ancestors all by themselves, and without putting the Archives staff to any trouble. Without having to spend time on Attestation paper searches, they have more time for the complicated stuff.

In fact, I suggest if they put everything on line, they would have more time for coffee breaks and would take less verbal abuse from the public!

I still agree with the tenor of your comments.