stan Posted 15 April , 2006 Share Posted 15 April , 2006 Help.....I feel I should know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 15 April , 2006 Share Posted 15 April , 2006 The 160 hp Oberursel used, not very successfully in the Fokker EIV ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan Posted 16 April , 2006 Author Share Posted 16 April , 2006 There seems to be some debate as to whether it is the 160hp Oberursal UIII or the 100hp Gnome Omega-omega. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 16 April , 2006 Share Posted 16 April , 2006 Just looking at the two photos, I can't see a single detail other than the mounting where they differ. Presumably the Gnome Omega-Omega was also a double-row rotary? Could the Oberursel 160 have been a develpment of a copy? Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAAAEd Posted 17 April , 2006 Share Posted 17 April , 2006 Just looking at the two photos, I can't see a single detail other than the mounting where they differ. Adrian I agree with that. The different mounting shown in the photo' with Stan's post could be a maintenance or storage/transportation stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jempie Posted 17 April , 2006 Share Posted 17 April , 2006 Hi! I am not a real specialist, but has both photos at hand! Total above is a 100 HP Gnome motor! Notice the the ignition candles!(Spark plugs) On a Gnome motor they are on top of cilinder into an angle fitted! (some 30 to 45 ° ) By a Oberursel-Gnome type motor they are horizontal below the head of the cilinder going into the cinlinder! That's a little detail, but at hand of this you can make out which motor it is! VBR Jempie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jempie Posted 17 April , 2006 Share Posted 17 April , 2006 Hi! I am not a real specialist, but has both photos at hand! Total above is a 100 HP Gnome motor! Notice the the ignition candles!(Spark plugs) On a Gnome motor they are on top of cilinder into an angle fitted! (some 30 to 45 ° ) By a Oberursel-Gnome type motor they are horizontal below the head of the cilinder going into the cinlinder! That's a little detail, but at hand of this you can make out which motor it is! VBR Jempie I scanned both, but didn't know what dimensions are allowed here! So I'll try to post them VBR Jempie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted 18 April , 2006 Share Posted 18 April , 2006 Adrian, not too sure about using the angle of the spark plugs to determine Gnome or Oberusel! The attached photograph comes from a highly regarded source which I'd better not mention. They say it's a Gnome. It does not have plugs inclined at 45 degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jempie Posted 18 April , 2006 Share Posted 18 April , 2006 Adrian, not too sure about using the angle of the spark plugs to determine Gnome or Oberusel! The attached photograph comes from a highly regarded source which I'd better not mention. They say it's a Gnome. It does not have plugs inclined at 45 degrees. To both my apologies! I am not a specialist , as told into thiese matters! My first photo I placed was an a Gnôme 100 PS indeed (Source A book 1911 Arnsbert Vorreiter/Germany) The second came from A.P. Neumann book 1920! (Oberursel photo!) I checked now a third book, (on Blériot planes!) however the 160 P.S. Gnôme motor isn't in it on photo, but a simple drawing shows indeed the spark plugs are also there horizontal fitted into the cilinder so to see! At first sight from photo of a motor only, it seems to be difficult to make out which of the two it is! We must than trust on the annotation of the author to believe which one it is! Probably both had the same outlook! Were technically identical ??????????? Sorry! VBR Jempie Posted here the cutplan of such 7 cilinder Gnôme motor, the 14 cilinder 100 PS on photo was identical, but now I noticed the more powerfull motors had their plugs also by the Gnome horizontal fitted? Than i's indeed difficult to tell which one it was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Roberts Posted 18 April , 2006 Share Posted 18 April , 2006 Stan, Jempie, Mike, PP Well, at least we've narrowed it down to the two possibilities, and the Oberursel types were Gnome copies (or did they start pre-war, in which case presumably licence-built?). The one I posted can be positively identified as the Oberursel 160, not just by the caption but because its in an airframe. The one Stan posted could be either because it seems you cannot generalise about the spark plug angles. So the next question is, if they were externally identical, what did Oberursel do to get the extra 60hp? Surely can't just be down to repositioning the plugs. Different [static] crankshaft leading to higher compression perhaps? Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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