Royal Garrison Artillery

[PhilB]

I recently came across mention of Mountain Batteries RGA. This seemed odd as I thought the RGA handled the big siege type guns. What did a Mountain Battery RGA do? Phil B

[KONDOA]

Mountain batteries were highly portable units with guns that could be disembled and carried on the backs of mules. They were of particular use in north west India etc where normal limbered guns were unable to reach.

Several batteries of the Indian Army provided this capability in German East Africa especially successful in the drive to Kilossa from Dodoma.

Roop

[PhilB]

Thanks, Roop. I thought those would be field or horse artillery rather than RGA? Phil B

[KONDOA]

Phil

These were essentially howitzers so safely within RGA remit.

Roop

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

They also had 9pdr Maxim Batteries in the Boer War.[No:4 MB RGA]

[PhilB]

Thanks gents. I always thought the RGA only had the big guns! Phil B

[CSMMo]

There also was a TF Mountain Brigade, the 4th Highland (Mountain) Brigade, that was RGA. They had four ten-pounder "screw guns" in three batteries and used Highland Ponies for transport. Two of these batteries, assigned to the 29th Division, provided the first guns ashore at 'W' Beach and landed at Gallipoli before noon on 25 April 1915. As they could move their guns up to the front trench lines, they were effective at anti-machine gun fires. As they could (and did) take their guns apart and manhandle them onto cliff tops and other difficult locations, they could provide enfilading fires that the RFA and the Naval Gunfire couldn't. Unfortunately, there were just two batteries for the entire Helles front with one Indian Mountain Brigade at Anzac. Their proximity to the front and effective, but recognizable fires led to their attrition down to one composite battery by June. They were outfitted with additional guns and replacements trained as mountain gunners and provided the first guns ashore at Suvla Bay as well. These missions are not well documented as their War Diaries have been lost long ago. (And their history is not yet written!)

The photo is of a crew loading the gun onto the ponies in Bedford prior to deployment.

Mike Morrison

[Old Tom]

Hello,

I wonder if Roop can expand his point. I thought that when the BEF went to war, the divisional artillery consisted of 18 pdrs, 4,5" hows and 60 pdrs. The 60 pdrs were RGA but, I thought, the 18 pdrs and the 4.5"s belong to the same brigade of the RFA. I suppose that does not rule out the 4.5" being RGA, but it seems wrong.

Old Tom

[KONDOA]

Perhaps a little generalistic in my reply. Indeed RFA had Howitzer batteries as did the RGA have guns. I guess there must be a better reason than I previousl stated.

Roop

[CSMMo]

I don't know the official line, but it seems the delineation falls along lines similar to this: RFA - Standard Divisional support artillery, both guns and howitzers. RHA, somewhat lighter guns meant to be fast enough to support fast moving cavalry. RGA - Heaviest missions - Seige Batteries, Heavy Batteries and Mountain Batteries. While MB's had the smallest guns, they were required to lift them onto horse/mule back and back off for deployment. In Gallipoli, they had to manhandle them up the cliffs as the animals couldn't make it. Consequently, (quoted from 'Regulations for the Territorial Force, 1908') Gunner recruits in RHA and RFA units were required to be at least 5'6" tall (infantry required at least a height of 5'2") and Mountain Gunners had to be at least 5'7" tall. Drivers had to be at least 5'3" except Heavy and Mountain Gun Drivers who had to be at least 5'4" tall.

I hope that makes it a bit clearer. Each was a distinct branch of the RA with a distinct mission.

Mike Morrison

[PhilB]

From the LLT:-

Royal Garrison Artillery

The RGA was responsible for the heavy, large calibre guns and howitzers that were positioned some way behind the front line.

I`m still slightly confused as to why MBs are there and not in RFA or RHA. Phil B

[CSMMo]

Phil, Just from the name it would appear that the RGA originally consisted of the 'permanently' emplaced coastal and fortress guns. It seems it may have evolved into the 'specialty' branch of the RA as (I believe) trench mortars were first assigned as RGA and some other innovation of the First World War that slips my aging mind at the present. That confusion could have been what led to the consolidation of all artillery into RA after the war. Mountain Gunnery was a specialized area. Indeed, 4th Highland (Mountain) Brigade was unique in the UK and in the TF and was assigned a Mountain mission in 1908 due to their mission, with the Highland Divisional Artillery, of home defense of the Highlands and Islands from whence they came. When the Brigade was transferred from the Highland Division to the 29th Division in March 1915, they left one of the three batteries behind in the UK (after transferring 80 men to the two batteries going to Gallipoli) along with the overage, the underage and the few who didn't execute the Imperial Agreement, to train replacements as they were the only ones in the UK expert at the mountain gun mission.

As for the categories to which they were assigned, it might have just been some Bureaucrat making a decision and saying - "this goes into this basket and that goes into that basket." The distinctions were clear then! Man! I wish I'd spent more time talking with my grandfather when he was here!

Mike Morrison

[PhilB]

.

As for the categories to which they were assigned, it might have just been some Bureaucrat making a decision and saying - "this goes into this basket and that goes into that basket."

Mike Morrison

I think that sums it up, Mike - they had to go somewhere! Phil B

[leigh]

I am a bit late to the discussion but might be able to offer a bit of info.

The RHA supported the cavalry with light mobile guns, The RFA supported the infantry with light mobile guns. Thr RGA pre war provided costal, siege, mountain and heavy field guns.

Both the RHA and the RFA were fully mounted whilst the RGA were dismounted. The RGA did use drivers and mules/horses to move the guns but were not 'mounted' as such. This is probably why the Mountain batteries are RGA.

3 mountain batteries were used in france to provide artillery support on the front line but by the end of 1915 it was evident that it was not fully effective and withdrawn from the front.

Not sure if this helps

Leigh.