Individual Research

[johnnie]

I am researching two of my greatgrandfathers careers, and am having a little difficulty. The first was a Sgt Frank Dawson (739), who was a pre war soldier. I have his medals (Victory medal, War Medal, and 1914-15 Star) and medal record card that states he was in the RFA, and then the Tank Corps, however his medals are marked only RFA and not Tank Corps. Is this unusual? His medals are also marked Sgt but I have his commision document to 2nd Lieut, and I also have paperwork stating he was in the Machine Gun Corps.

My other relative was a Sgt Ralph Reginald Shipley RE (211785), and I also have his medals (war and victory) and medal card, however there seem to be two medal cards for him. One is a regular type that lists the medals he has, while the other is different and lists his address, states he applied for a badge (I think) on the 22/9/1916, and I think it states the action was refused (refused list 7). Does any body have any idea what this means? This second form also states his rank was 2nd Lieut rather that Sgt. At first I though it could be a different Ralph Reginald Shipley, however the home address is correct.

I am also trying to research Sgt W C Beattie. His regiment number was 60, although it seems to have changed to 29354 at some later date.

I have his medal record card which states (if I understand it) that he served with the 5th Battalion of the Kings Own Scottish Borderers.

It also seems to state that he served in the Balkans?

I was given his 1914-15 Star quite a few years ago, and have been trying to find out more about him. Any help would be great.

As an extra, on the medal record card it has a section stating theatre of war first served in. If a man served over seas is this always filled in? Just I have a death scroll for a chap who served under the name Morrison but was actually called Minshaw (Northumberland Fusiliers No. 21/1303) and his medal card does not show that he served overseas, yet he is burried at Ration Farm Cemetery, La Chapelle-D'Armentiers, so he obviously was overseas.

Any help on any of the above would be great.

Jonathan

[enoch beard]

hello,

most medals have the first unit he served in listed on them! so that is why his medals are not impressed tank corps!

he would have to served abroad as a officer(before nov 11 1918) to have his medals impressed 2nd lt. what was the date of his commision?

[johnnie]

Hi.

Thanks for the information. I have just had a look at his commission document states he held the rank of

Second Lieutenant from the 23rd of March 1919 (so after the war had ended).

He laso had the Territorial Efficiency Medal, and I was wondering what this was awrded for (it also carries

his number and RA).

Jonathan

[enoch beard]

the territorial efficiency medal was issued for 12 years in the territorial army, war service counting double.

[Stebie9173]

Managed to catch the London Gazette site actually working:

London Gazette 18-10-1915

Northumbrian Divisional Engineers.

The undermentioned to be Second Lieutenants: —

Cadet Ralph Reginald Shipley, from the Durham University Contingent, Senior Division, Officers Training Corps. Dated 11th October, 1915.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

The link may or may not work but keep trying....

Also:

London Gazette 20-5-1916

Northumbrian Div. Engrs.

2nd Lt. R. R. Shipley relinquishes his comm. 21st May 1916.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

My suspicion is that he was an officer serving in the UK and relinquished his commission to re-enlist in the Royal Engineers in the Ranks so he could go overseas. Seen that happen before. The number 211785 seems like a late 1916 number.

He possibly applied for a Silver War Badge after his initial discharge but was turned down.

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

Soldiers going overseas for the first time after 1-1-1916 do not have a date or theatre of war shown.

I would suspect that Ralph Shipley will not have a date and theatre shown?

Steve.

[johnnie]

Hi,

Thanks for the information. That would seem to fit as he went to University to train as

an architect.

I only have a few photo's of him during his time in the army, and they seem to show him

if what I thought was an officers uniform so it all makes a bit more sence now.

You were also correct in thinking that his medal record card does not show him as serving

overseas.

Jonathan

[Stebie9173]

The other option to bear in mind is that he may have been hurt in an accident, fallen ill, etc. and left the army, then been called up (or even "white feathered") and applied for the Silver War Badge to prove that he would not be able to serve further. He was then turned down and either re-enlisted or was conscripted.

If he had a medal card with a Victory Medal and British War Medal he would have served overseas, just not before 1-1-1916. Those who did not serve overseas would not have a "standard" medal card at all.

Steve.

[johnnie]

His second medal card states he had the War Medal and Victory medal (both of which I now have).

As an aside, what does the silver war badge look like. Just my other Great Grandfather (Frank Dawson) is wearing a silver rectangular badge

on his right brest in later pictures, and I also have some pictures of him in a hospital with other soldiers. I kind of put two and two together and made 5 and wondered it it could be a wound badge he was wearing.

Jonathan

[Stebie9173]

There is a picture and desrcription here:

http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/grandad8.htm

The silver rectangular badge may be an Imperial Service Badge, which denoted those Territorial men who had volunteered for overseas service.

A number as low as 739 implies that he was in a Territorial Force Artillery Unit, probably local to where he lived, and probably was serving before the war.

Steve.

[johnnie]

Ah. Thanks for that.

It makes sense as he was indeed in the army (or the TA) prior to the start of the war. We have a number of postcards (showing him and other RFA bods) while at different camps (Seamer in 1913 and Buddon an 1914).

Its just trying to work out where all the bits fit. I have spent a number of years research my grandfathers time in Bomber Command during the last war, and now I thought I would turn my attention to my great grandfathers items.