Captain Tommy Price - 6th Northamptonshires and Tank Corps

[Guest Simon Bull]

Some time ago, one of the Pals posted a thread asking what names repeatedly cropped up in one's research. I mentioned the name of Captain Tommy Price, whose story featured heavily in the events around about the time of the deaths of two of the men on the War Memorial which I am studying (when he was with the Sixth Northamptonshires) and who was the officer in command of my grandfather's Company when my grandfather was taken prisoner on 24 April 1918, Tommy Price having, by then, transferred to the Tank Corps. A couple of days later Tommy Price was wounded when exploring the area in which my grandfather had been taken prisoner, in order to see what had happened to my grandfather and the two men who had been posted missing with him.

It occurred to me to wonder, given that Tommy Price was an officer, and also given the number of people interested in the Northamptonshire Regiment, on the Forum whether anybody had a photograph which they know to have shown Tommy Price.

He was a most interesting character. If I had the time I would love to do some research about him.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Simon,

I dont know @ present if he is one of these I have only just accquired the P/C it was taken in France April 1917.possibly Steve Beeby might be able to ID them if he's known?

[i know it is 6th Bn as Sgt J.L.Butlin;MM is behind the Officer with the Walking Stick

[Stebie9173]

Don't have a definite picture.

He is possibly in this group of Northamptonshire Officers.

Centre is Col. Turner, CO from March 1917 (the "distinguished" gentleman). Next to him on the left as we look is Hubert Podmore DSO (Died in a grenade demonstration accident 31-12-1917) and rightmost of the three officers at the top is Captain Frank Septimus Neville, dow 24-11-1917. Second from the right, seated is Stanley Le Fleming Shepherd (survived WW1, but killed in Russia 1919). These are the only four I can positively identify.

The date is therefore probably between March and November 1917.

2/Lt Price joined the 6th Nortamptonshires in France on 18-5-1916 and his Gazette secondment to the Tank Corps is dated 29-7-1917.

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

I have done a bit of "facts and figures research" into Thomas Price. He later became a Brigadier in WW2 serving in North Africa and later as part of Major General Sir Percy Hobarts, 79th Armoured Division, aka Hobo's Funnies in NW Europe on or around D-Day.

Would you like me to post details?

Have also got details of a report by him on actions of 24-4-1918 at Cachy.

Steve.

EDIT: I see from earlier posts that you have seen Tommy Price's account.

Edited 3 April , 2006 by Stebie9173

[Guest Simon Bull]

I have done a bit of "facts and figures research" into Thomas Price. He later became a Brigadier in WW2 serving in North Africa and later as part of Major General Sir Percy Hobarts, 79th Armoured Division, aka Hobo's Funnies in NW Europe on or around D-Day.

Would you like me to post details?

Have also got details of a report by him on actions of 24-4-1918 at Cachy.

Steve.

EDIT: I see from earlier posts that you have seen Tommy Price's account.

Steve

Sorry to be slow replying - I have been away.

As you say I have seen Tommy Price's account of 24/4/1918, but I would love to hear more about his subsequent career. I find his career fascinating.

Thanks, gents, for posting the photographs. Maybe one day one of us will be able to identify him!

[Stebie9173]

Simon,

Don't have any real detail on his later career, but here is what I have on his career in general.

Summary.

WW1

Born at Woburn Sands, son of Rev T J Price, BA – 15-9-1896 (WWW)

Educated at Kingswood School, Bath (WWW)

2/Lt. On Probation, 3rd Battalion Northamptonshire Regiment – 24-2-1915 (LG 23-2-1915)

Overseas to 2nd Northamptonshire Regiment - mid 1915 (assumed)

Wounded at Bois Grenier on left flank at Loos with 2nd Battalion Northamptonshire Regiment as 2/Lt. – c 25-9-1915 (Times 8-10-1915)

Joined 6th Northamptons in trenches – 18-5-1916 (6th Northants War Diary)

“D” Company per Battalion Orders – 1-7-1916 (6th Northants War Diary)

At Trones Wood as part of “D” Company. Company shot at by accident by Royal West Kents. Slightly wounded in leg, but not specified by whom. Took command of “B” Company in wood. Cleared northern section of wood with composite force of Northamptons (or not by Lt. Col. Maxwell’s account) - 14-7-1916 (War Diary, Brigade History, 12th Middlesex War Diary)

Promoted to temporary Lieutenant – 15-7-1916 (LG 11-10-1916)

Promoted to full Lieutenant, Regular Army – 16-12-1916 (LG 15-1-1918)

Rejoined battalion and appointed Adjutant – 10-10-1916 (War Diary & LG 24-2-1917)

Moved up during attack at Boom Ravine after initial assault. Won DSO for moving D Company on from Boom Ravine and organising later withdrawal - 17-2-1917 (6th Northants War Diary, 54th Brigade History, LG 17-4-1917 for DSO)

Mentioned in Despatches - LG 25-5-1917

Promoted to temporary Captain – 22-2-1917 (LG 27-4-1917)

Relinquished appointment as Adjutant – 21-7-1917 (LG 17-12-917)

MC won between 22-2-1917 and 29-7-1917 whilst a temporary Captain with Northamptonshire Regiment (LG 26-7-1917)

Seconded to Tank Corps as temporary captain retaining seniority – 29-7-1917 (LG 30-1-1918)

C Company of 3rd Battalion Tank Corps - 1918

Commanding X Company of 7 Whippet Tanks of 3rd Battalion Tank Corps in first tank vs. tank battle against German A7Vs at Cachy. Won Bar to MC – 24-4-1918

(Iron Fist, Tanks & Trenches, GWF, Brigade History, Bar Gazetted LG 16-9-1918)

Mentioned in despatches for work between 25-9-1917 and 24-2-1918 (LG 25-5-1918)

Appointed acting Major whilst commanding a company – 10-7-1918 to 1-9-1918 (LG 5-9-1918 & LG 22-10-1918)

Appointed Acting Major whilst 2nd-in-command of a battalion – 1-9-1918 (LG 14-11-1918)

Between the Wars

Relinquishes temporary rank of Captain – 1-1-1921 (LG 31-12-1920)

Ceases employment with Tank Corps – 2-4-1921 (LG 18-5-1921)

Promoted Captain in Tank Corps and remains seconded with Seniority from 1-1-1923 – 20-10-1923 (LG 19-10-1923)

Seconded for service with the West African Frontier Force – 7-7-1923 (LG 11-9-1923)

Restored to the establishment (Royal Tank Corps) – 30-5-1925 (LG 25-5-1925)

Seconded for Service under the Colonial Office – 6-10-1926 (LG 16-7-1926)

Local rank of Major whilst serving with Royal West African Frontier Force – 15-10-1929 to 3-5-1931 (LG 29-10-1929)

Married to Christian Farquharson Gordon Leask in Nigeria - Summer 1931. (Times 27-5-1931)

Local rank of Lieutenant-Colonel whilst serving as Commanding officer, 1st Nigerian Regiment with Royal West African Frontier Force – 3-5-1931 to 16-9-1932 (LG 22-5-1931 and LG 20-9-1932)

Restored to the establishment – 29-9-1932 (LG 30-9-1932)

Appointed Adjutant in Royal Tank Corps – 1-4-1934 to 1-6-1935 (LG 1-5-1934 and LG 12-7-1935)

Promoted to Major in Royal Tank Corps – 1-8-1935 (LG 30-8-1935)

WW2

Commandant of Gold Coast – 1940 (WWW & Generals.dk)

Promoted to Lieutenant-Colonel of Royal Armoured Corps (Royal Tank Regiment) - 16-6-1941 (LG 16-9-1941)

Commanding Officer 31st Army Tank Brigade (in UK)– 1941 to 1942 (WWW & Generals.dk)

Commanding Officer 31st Tank Brigade – 1942 (WWW & Generals.dk)

Commanding Officer 1st Army Tank Brigade, 8th Armoured Division, Middle East, possibly including Gazala, Tobruk July 1942 (?) & El Alamein October 1942 – 1942 to 1944 (WWW & Generals.dk)

Commanding Officer 1st Tank Brigade, North-West Europe – 1944 (WWW & Generals.dk & OOB at Gazala & El Alamein)

Possibly at D-Day, 79th Armoured Division under Maj.-Gen. Sir Percy Hobart (“Hobo’s Funnies”) – 6-6-1944 (Location of 1st Tank Brigade per OOB)

Completion of period of Service (remains on full pay) – 16-6-1944 (LG 16-6-1944)

Brigadier General Staff British Army Staff Washington – 1945 to 1948 (WWW & Generals.dk)

Retires on Full Pay – 6-11-1948 (LG 9-11-1948)

Reaches age of liability to recall – 15-9-1952 (LG 10-10-1952)

Death of 1st Wife – 1960 (WWW)

Married 2nd wife, Gwendolen Wicks, eldest daughter of S Wicks – 1969 (WWW)

Death of 2nd wife – 1977 (WWW)

Dies age 83 – 11-2-1978 (Times 13-2-1978)

I may well be missing one or two movements, especially between the wars.

DSO Citation, LG 17-4-1917

2nd Lt. (temp. Lt.) Thomas Reginald Price, North'n R.

For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. He took command of his battalion and led it from the first to the second objective. He organised two successive defensive positions under very heavy fire, thereby saving a critical situation. He inspired all ranks by his high example of courage and devotion to duty.

(Won at Boom Ravine 17-2-1917)

Military Cross Citation, LG 26-7-1917

2nd Lt. (temp. Capt.) Thomas Reginald Price, D.S.O., North'n R.

For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. He remained as Forward Infantry Observing Officer for many hours under heavy fire, sending back valuable information and acting in a most gallant manner in re-forming men who had returned to their trenches. He set a very fine example to all ranks.

Bar to Military Cross citation - LG 16-9-1918

T./Capt. Thomas Reginald Price, D.S.O., M.C., Tank Corps.

For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. He led his detachment of tanks into action and completely broke up two enemy battalions, causing over 400 casualties. Later he conducted a valuable reconnaissance under heavy fire. He also commanded with the greatest skill a company of tanks which prevented the enemy from breaking through. He has at all times shown courage of a high order

(For his work at Cachy on 24-4-1918)

Here is his entry in Who Was Who 1971-1980 :

Price, Brig Thomas Reginald

DSO 1917, MC b. Woburn Sands, 15-9-1894; S of Rev T J Price, BA.; M 1st 1931 Christian Farquharson Gordon (d 1960) yr d of James Leask & Mrs M E Fraser. 2nd 1969 Gwedolen (d 1977) e d of S Wicks; Educ Kingswood School, Bath; Special Reserve Com. Northants Reg 1915; Lt Regular Army 1916; Captain 1923; Major 1935; Lt Col 1941; Brig 1941; R Tank Corps 1917; Served in France (1915 to 1918); DSO, MC 1917, Bar to MC 1918; Despatches thrice; Wounded Loos 1915, Somme 1917& German advance 1918;In Nigeria 1921-1932; Lt Col Comm 1st Nigeria Regiment 1931-32; Served War of 1939-45; Commandant Gold Coast 1940; Comm 31st Tank Bde 1941-42; Comm 1st Tank Bde 1942-44; Brig General Staff Washington 1945-48; Recreations: All outdoor games and sports; Address: Old Timbers, Dora’s Green Lane, Dippenhall, Farnham, Surrey; Club: Naval and Military.

The "wounded Somme 1917" entry is as published, though he was definitely wounded on 14-7-1916, and I can't find a 1917 wounding. May or may not be an error.

I'm missing a MID (perhaps for WW2) and I can't find an obituary for him.

Steve.

[Guest Simon Bull]

Steve

Many thanks for all the details.

His Great War career makes his Second World War preferment unsurprising!

[Guest Simon Bull]

Steve, do I understand correctly that the records show that Tommy Price left the Tank Corps in 1921 and returned in 1923?

If so do you know if his records will be available in the PRO in WO339 or WO374?

It would appear that officers who were in service in 1922 are not in either class, but the PRO leaflet is not clear about those who left and came back.

[Stebie9173]

Not sure to be honest, Simon.

The between the wars bit doesn't seem to "run true". I thought that there might be one or two movements missing. It does seem to say that he ceases employment, but doesn't actually say that he relinquished his commission.

These are the early twenties Gazette entreies in full:

London Gazette 12-4-1920

The undermentioned are secd, for service with the Tank Corps: —

North'n R.— Lt. T. R. Price, D.S.O., M.C. 29th, July 1917.

London Gazette 31-12-1920

TANK CORPS.

Lt. T. R. Price, D.S.O., M.C. (North'n. R.), relinquishes the temp, rank of Capt. 1 Jan. 1921.

London Gazette 18-5-1921

TANK CORPS.

Lt. T.: R. Price, D.'S.O., M.C. (North'n R.) ceases to be empld. with the Corps. 2 Apr. 1921.

London Gazette 1-5-1923

North'n R.—The undermentioned Lts. to be Capts. 1st Jan. 1923: —

T. R. Price, D.S.O., M.C., and to remain secd.

London Gazette 11-9-1923

The following Lieutenants to be temporary Captains.

For Service with the W. Afr. Fron. Force - T. R. Price, D.S.O, M.C., North’n R. (from 7 Sept to 31 Dec)

London Gazette 19-10-1923

TANK CORPS.

Capt. T. R. Price, D.S.O., M.C., from North'n. R., to be Capt. 20th Oct. 1923, with seniority 1st Jan. 1923, and to remain secd.

London Gazette 25-5-1925

ROYAL TANK CORPS.

Capt. T. R. Price, D.S.O., M.C., is restd. to the estabt. 30th May 1925.

For the record there is also this mystery one, though it doesn't mentiona DSO, MC etc.:

London Gazette 29-7-1919

The undermentioned are transferred to unempld. list.: —

Lt. T. R. Price. 7th Apr. 1919.

The reference in Who Was Who refers to him moving to the Regular Army in 1916. I think he may well have stayed in, and therefore no file in WO339 or WO374. Don't really know though.

Steve.

[Guest Simon Bull]

Not sure to be honest, Simon.

The between the wars bit doesn't seem to "run true". I thought that there might be one or two movements missing. It does seem to say that he ceases employment, but doesn't actually say that he relinquished his commission.

The reference in Who Was Who refers to him moving to the Regular Army in 1916. I think he may well have stayed in, and therefore no file in WO339 or WO374. Don't really know though.

Steve.

Steve

I am at the NA a bit later this week, so I shall give it a try and see what I find.

Thanks for all your help.

[Guest Simon Bull]

Steve

I am at the NA a bit later this week, so I shall give it a try and see what I find.

Thanks for all your help.

Steve

I did not in fact search, because at the PRO I looked at William Spencer's book on First World War records which made in clear that records of those who rejoined as just as inaccessible as those who stayed in.

[Stebie9173]

Sounds about right really, though I haven't checked myself. Foiled again!

I shall certainly keep an eye and ear out for him though...

Steve.

[Guest Simon Bull]

Thanks Steve.

Sorry to be so slow replying, but have been away.

[Stebie9173]

Not sure if you have this little snippet:

According to the 18th Division History, he was wounded on 24th April 1918 when German machine gun bullets "found their way through the door of his tank".

Steve.

[Guest Simon Bull]

Not sure if you have this little snippet:

According to the 18th Division History, he was wounded on 24th April 1918 when German machine gun bullets "found their way through the door of his tank".

Steve.

Far be it from me to disagree with the history, but this is in fact not accurate - indeed it, in effect, is a mirror image of what happened.. He was approaching the wreck of the tank from which my grandfather had been taken prisoner two days earlier to see if he could establish what had happened to the occupants of the tank. He had been told by infantry in the area that there were not Germans in the area, and then he approached. The Germans appear to have set up a machine gun in the tank and it was this which wounded him and another officer with him.

[Stebie9173]

I sit corrected. Just goes to show. Don't believe everything you read.

Anyone want a hardly used 18th Division History?

Guaranteed at least 5% accurate!

Steve.

[Guest Simon Bull]

I sit corrected. Just goes to show. Don't believe everything you read.

Anyone want a hardly used 18th Division History?

Guaranteed at least 5% accurate!

Steve.

Sorry Steve I did not mean to sound censorious!

In fact the Official History of the War is incorrect about the Cachy Incident as it records three men being killed in the Whippets. This is not right as 2 Lt Dale was killed, but my grandfather and a third man (Gunner Herbert) were missing for a long time but not killed.

In all seriousness I think this is an object lesson in the need to be careful about the accuracy of sources.

[Stebie9173]

I didn't take it like that, Simon. Just glad the true story is available.

I'm glad the false information was something you could immediately see as wrong, so you didn't go away with any false history.

It's a pity that in most cases of individuals records we end up having to rely on sources that are just plain uncheckable in 95% of cases.

Steve.

[Guest Simon Bull]

Just to add to this thread that it has always struck me that Tommy Price and the officer with him must have been remarkably lucky to survive the incident when they were machine gunned from the wrecked tank. The county in question is pretty open, and I would have thought that had the gunners been patient they would have stood no chance. I guess they opened up at long range, leaving some opportunity for escape after the two officers had been hit. I do not know much about Price's injuries, but the other officer was sufficiently seriously injured hat he was sent back to the UK.