Private Ernest W Danforth Regiment No 14/672

[jsimps1964]

Can anyone help I am trying to locate war records for my great grandad, not having been in the army I am not sure of terminology etc.

I believe he enlisted originally in the Argyille and Sutherland Highlanders using his mothers maiden name of Reaney as he was under age. However in 1914 or 1915 he joined the York and Lancaster Regiment. How would I find out what battallion he was in? Also where would I be able to get his records from?

Many Thanks

Jo

[shaymen]

Jo

Welcome to the forum.

Firstly you can download his MIC Medal Index Card - costs 3.50 - to see what you are likely to find on an MIC check out the main site ( Long Long Trial)

Click here for MIC

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=1

As for his service records - only about 1/3 survived the ww2 blitz but you will only find out from the NA (National Archives) if his survived.

Hope this helps a little

Glyn

[SteveE]

Hi Jo and welcome

I'm not 100% sure (and I hope somebody will correct me if I'm wrong) but I believe there is a clue in his service number, I believe the 14/ relates to the 14th (Service) Battalion (2nd Barnsley) of the York and Lancaster Regiment, more commonly referred to as the 2nd Barnsley Pals.

Did you GGfather have links with Barnsley?

If he did then it's quite possible that this man could be a brother?

Medal card of Danforth, John W

Corps Regiment No Rank

York and Lancaster Regiment 14/863 Corporal

Hope this helps

Steve

[Stebie9173]

That's what I had though, too, Steve.

The 2nd Barnsley Pals were 31st Division and were one of the Pals battalions "wiped out" on July 1st 1916 at Serre.

The only family with an Ernest Danforth on the 1901 Census is:

Location: 11 Cadman Street, Workington, Cumberland.

John Danforth abt 1862 Hoyland Common Nr Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Head (Coalminer)

Ernest Danforth abt 1883 Dronfield, Derbyshire, England Son (Coalminer)

Alexander Danforth abt 1887 Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Son (Pit Labourer)

Arthur Danforth abt 1896 Maryport, Cumberland, England Son

Edith Danforth abt 1899 Cockermouth Daughter

Could be father and son... unless there is a brother who left before the 1901 Census. John (Snr) and Alxeander were born in Barnsley. Certainly seem to have links to Barnsley.

Apologies if I'm repeating information you already know.

Steve B.

EDIT to remove extra misleading information, but leaving in the bit that Steve E is referring to.

[SteveE]

I was thinking more along the lines of it being this family, there's a John W but no Ernest W, if he was underage as suggested then he may not be on 1901 census.

Living at 25 Ivy Ter. Osborne St. Barnsley......

Henry Danforth abt 1851 Crigglestone, Yorkshire, England Head Barnsley Yorkshire

Jane Danforth abt 1853 Rawmarsh, Yorkshire, England Wife Barnsley Yorkshire

Harry Danforth abt 1883 Rawmarsh, Yorkshire, England Son Barnsley Yorkshire

John W Danforth abt 1888 Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Son Barnsley Yorkshire

George L Danforth abt 1894 Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Son Barnsley Yorkshire

Charles E Danforth abt 1896 Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Son Barnsley Yorkshire

Steve

[Stebie9173]

Yes, You're right, of course, Steve. I had forgotten the underage bit!

Stupid boy!

Steve.

[bernardmcilwaine]

e w danforth is listed with the 14th york+lancs regt,[barnsley pals] bernard

[jsimps1964]

Many thanks to all of you for your help.

Sorry about the underage bit that was a little misleading, he was only underage when he enlisted in his mum's maiden name in the Argylle and Sutherland Highlanders. In 1915 he wasn't underage and he enlisted in his correct name.

He is the one named in the 1901 census listed as living at 11 Cadman Street, Workington but he did indeed move to the Barnsley area.

Steve, the Danforth's you list could very well be relatives so thanks for this I will investigate further.

Got his medal card now so thanks for that Glyn and by luck I got his brothers medal card on the same page, so 2 for the price 1.

So my next move to get his records is to actually go to the National Archives?!?!?!

Thanks again to you all for your help

Best Wishes

Jo

[jsimps1964]

e w danforth is listed with the 14th york+lancs regt,[barnsley pals] bernard

Bernard how do you know he is listed with the 14th Yord & Lancs Regt? Where would I be able to see this? Is that Barnsley pals or 2nd barnsley pals?

Thanks

Jo

[Stebie9173]

I'm wrong but I'm right!

Better lucky than good....

Can I undelete my work?

I couldn't find an Ernest Danforth born 1883 on the BMD list, however if I remember rightly there is an Ernest Danford listed on the BMD records which I think could be Ernest.

This one:

Name: Ernest William M Danford

Year of Registration: 1882

Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec

District: Chesterfield

County: Derbyshire

Volume: 7b

Page: 725

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

The National Archives is always best bet.

You will need to find out what battalion he went overseas with from the Medal Rolls which are referenced to on the Medal Index Cards. Although he was allocated a number with a 14/ prefix (which is 2nd Barnsley Pals, Bernard was just shorthanding), he may have gone overseas with another battalion.

Does he have a 1914-15 Star listed? It may give us a clue to which battalion he was with overseas if a date of going overseas is listed. Having joined in 1915, it will be borderline whether he has a 1915 Star, though.

There is also a possibility that his service records for his earlier service are stored in the boxes of the WO97 Series.

And his Service Record for WW1 may survive on Microfilm, but 70% of these were destroyed in the blitz and the remainder are rather hard to read due to being singed and water damaged. Don't know till you try, however.

As for the Barnsley Pals, try this website:

http://www.pals.org.uk/barnsley/index.htm

There is also a book available, cunningly entitled "The Barnsley Pals : 13th and 14th Battalions, York and Lancaster Regiment

", by John Cooksey.

Steve.

[SteveE]

So Stebie, once again I have to bow to your superior knowledge, spot on again

If I understand it correctly now that the underage bit has been clarified, he must have served in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders at the end of the 1890's which means he would have been discharged from the service before the Great War.

In which case there is a good chance that his previous record of service may have survived in the WO97 series.

For discharge between:

1883-1900 you need NA reference WO97/3717 (covering surnames Reed to Rear).

1900-1913 you need NA reference WO97/5750 (covering surnames Ream to Reddick).

Regards

Steve

Note to self: must read posts properly as Stebie's already told you most of that!!

[Stebie9173]

Imagine not reading posts properly. The very thought of it!

Steve.

[jsimps1964]

Hi Stebie

The Ernest W - is Ernest William Martin - so the Danford entry in the BMD records is my great grandad. He didn't get the Star, he is listed as having the victory and british. Please excuse my ignorance but when you say his earlier records may be stored in the boxes of WO97 Series where are these, how do I go about getting the details?

Re: 14th - how would I know if he went overseas with another battalion?

Sorry for all the questions!

Thanks for the websites and the book details.

Thanks for all the help so far it is much appreciated.

Cheers

Jo

[Stebie9173]

Jo,

The Medal Rolls for the Regiment at the National Archives will list his unit in most case, especially for Infantry. I think Bernard's reply probably meant that he did go overseas with them, but he hasn't given a source so I'm not sure either.

The National Archives stores the Service Records of the men who served in the Army during the war. These records should consist of at least an "Attestation" (i.e. Enlistment) form, a medical examination form from his enlistment (including height, weight, hair/eye colour, etc.), a Casualty form (which actually lists promotions and transfers, as well as wounds), and a campaign history form. Most records would also have a lot more in them.

As I mentioned above, a lot of the WW1 records were destroyed in the Blitz, so what is left is pot-luck. These records are held on microfilm in several series (i.e. filing references) created by the War Office (hence WO). These series are WO363 (general series), WO363 mis-sorts (ones out of alphabetical order) and WO364 (usually soldiers with pension enquiries)

The same records will also exist for soldiers who served and were fully discharged before 1913. You great-grandad's service with the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders should fall in this bracket. The same records should therefore be held in the NA. This time they are physical papers which are stored in boxes. They are also in alphabetical order in two batches filed by date of discharge - pre-1900 and post-1900. Bearing in mind his age and the fact that he was probably discharged fairly quickly, his papers could be in either batch.

The references posted by Steve E are for the two possible boxes of papers that you would need to order at the NA. Again, you will need to be on site at the NA or get someone to look for you.

Steve.

[jsimps1964]

Hi Steve

Thanks for all the useful information it's great.

I suppose I would need to book a slot to visit the National Archives in Kew?

Thanks again for all your help.

Jo

[Pte1643]

I suppose I would need to book a slot to visit the National Archives in Kew?

No, not necessarily, you can just turn up.

But it's better to arrange both your reading ticket and pre-order the material you wish to read in advance.

Saves time when you get there.

Also guards you against going all the way down, only to find someone else has already booked the documents you want.

[jsimps1964]

Is it possible that someone would look my great grandad's records up for me it they were going to Kew at some point, and make copies/notes? Do you know how much it would cost for me to have someone do this if it is possible?

Many thanks

Jo