Silver War Badge vs. Star

[Guest Martin Hodson]

Dear All,

Just got the Medal Card for my great uncle John Butler of the 1/8th Worcestershire regiment. It all seems to make sense apart from one detail. He had two regimental numbers, but we know he had two periods of service in France from April 1915 to May 1918 (funeral description). We have a picture from January 1916 which has him as a Private who had been invalided home. He must have recovered and rejoined, and was a Serjeant by the time he was invalided out with TB in 1918. He eventually died in 1920.

Now the question. He has an SWB, which would be expected for someone invalided home, but no 14/15 Star. But he was definitely in France in 1915. Was this an administrative error, or does the SWB overide the Star?? Or is there some other explanation for the missing star?

Best Wishes,

Martin

[CROONAERT]

Dear All,

Just got the Medal Card for my great uncle John Butler of the 1/8th Worcestershire regiment. It all seems to make sense apart from one detail. He had two regimental numbers, but we know he had two periods of service in France from April 1915 to May 1918 (funeral description). We have a picture from January 1916 which has him as a Private who had been invalided home. He must have recovered and rejoined, and was a Serjeant by the time he was invalided out with TB in 1918. He eventually died in 1920.

Now the question. He has an SWB, which would be expected for someone invalided home, but no 14/15 Star. But he was definitely in France in 1915. Was this an administrative error, or does the SWB overide the Star?? Or is there some other explanation for the missing star?

Best Wishes,

Martin

Martin.

Sometimes there are 2 MICs for one soldier. One shows the BWM and Victory medal entitlement and the other shows the 14 or 14-15 star entitlement.

The SWB definately doesn't overide the star as it's not actually a medal and therefore couldn't.

Dave.

[Guest Martin Hodson]

Dear Dave,

Thanks for the lightning fast reply! I have just been to the National Archives site, and checked for all John Butlers in the Worcestershire Regiment. There is only one other, who happens to be on the same six cards as mine. He is definitely not mine as he went to France at the wrong time, remained a Private, and ended the war on the Z list.

Have some cards not been digitised??

Best Wishes,

Martin

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Try this tip:~try just using surname & number rather than full fore name as well,often just an initial is used.

However there doesnt appear to be another Card*,the fact that he only has this Card with the rank of Sergeant might suggest that he was injured @ home in 1915,before the Battalion went to France,OR served with another Battalion or Unit in 1914/15,the SWB would have only been issued IF he had been discharged NOT just because he was wounded/injured,& then on application

These cards that have SWB details on them sometimes have the other Medals within a "Rubberstamped" framework @ the top corner of the Card,or it could possibly be on the reverse of the Card,your best bet would be to find another member of the Regiment/Battalion,who has the Star & has a similar surname {But**}& get the Roll Page number from that & hope he is on it{someone who didnt transfer to another unit}

*using just Number & Regiment

[SteveE]

Martin

He does have two cards, the second is listed as J. BUTTER.

Link to it is Here

I suspect this card is his Star entitlement.

Regards

Steve

[Guest Martin Hodson]

Dear All,

Thanks so much for the advice. Steve- you were dead right! Now we can give John Butler (NOT Butter!) a 14/15 Star. The new card only has the Star and no other medals or mention of SWB. It fits absolutely perfectly with the newspaper report on his funeral which said he served in France from April 1915 (the card says 1st April 1915). The new card only has him as Private 2262. The remarks just say Dis (discharged). We know he was invalided home by January 1916, so does this Dis just refer to his first period of service as a Private?? He would then get a Star for his 1915 service. Then the old card mostly refers to his second period of service up to May 1918, when he was invalided home again with TB and had an SWB?? Am I on the right lines??

Many thanks again- as you can tell I am very new to all this, but my WW1 relatives are suddenly coming to life!

Best Wishes,

Martin

[Stebie9173]

The 1914-15 Star was issued earlier than the VM & BWM. The cards were all supposed to be matched to each other and the VM & BWM were added to the 1914-15 Star cards. Where cards could not be matched up by name another card was produced. It is obvious what happened in this case...

The award of the 1914-15 Star only applies to when the soldier stepped off the boat into the Theatre of War, and shows his rank at that point, whereas the VM & BWM medals show highest rank attained and first unit served in overseas, whether the rank was obtained with that unit or not.

By the time the 1914-15 Star card was being filled in circa-1918 the fact that he had been discharged in 1916 was already known and therefore appeared on the 1914-15 Star card as extra information.

Does that make sense?

Steve.

[Guest Martin Hodson]

Dear Steve,

Yes, I understand now. In your opinion would I get much more information going after the medal rolls in this case? I guess the SWB list would be the most interesting, and would tie down exactly when he was invalided home for the second time.

Now I just have the minor problem of my grandfather, George Butler, a driver in the RFA- snag is there are six such on the medal cards, and I do not yet have his regimental number. I have discovered that it is easier to work on people who died than those who lived.

Thanks again,

Martin