26th Northumberland Fusiliers (3rd Tyneside Irish)

[Chris_Baker]

If anyone has the war diary of this unit covering 9-14 April 1917, would they be so kind as to post a transcript here? I have a photocopy but it is almost illegible.

[laughton]

Me too!!!

Hope you find one Chris - and here I thought I had found a buddy researcher!

When I first started on this trek back in 2003, John Sheen hunted down a lot of information for me in exchange for access to my information, sort of a "PALS" arrangement. He put me in touch with a Richard Barsby who found the 26th NF war diary in the "Newcastle Central Library". I had more or less forgotten about that until I got your message today and then saw this post.

One of the problems is that there are two (2) "G" Laughton's, thankfully I am the descendant of the one that survived. There is also a "Claughton" that often turns up in searches as a "GLaughton", but as he was in my grandfather's platoon, I know he did not survive. I have actually tried to contact his family to pass on copies of the records that I have here in Canada. The CWGC is working on establishing that contact for me.

Richard Barsby kindly mailed me the records I have, very clear, but not for the dates we are looking for I am afraid. I did not know enough to ask more in February 2003. I have no idea if I can still contact Richard Barsby.

Perhaps your question will get some answers and this will lead our search somewhere!!

Richard of Canada

[sandyford]

Chris and Richard

Sorry, just noticed this thread.

I have not got this War Diary, but will be able to get copies of the dates requested, from the film in Newcastle library next time I am in, if you still want it.

Kate

[barrynee]

Hi folks - I'm interested in anything you might be able to find out about John Nee 26/501. He is listed as a private in some places, but as a lance-corporal on Thiepval memorial. He was KIA on 01/07/1916 I assume coming down that awful hill into La Boiselle. I wonder if he might have been a 'battlefield promotion' on the day? Anything you could find would be hugely appreciated - I've got Sheen's book, medal cards and information from the 'soldiers killed' databse but that's it.

Incidently, was in La Boiselle in March and have some photos if anyone is interested? Going back in July to be there at 07:30.

[Tom Grieves]

Hi folks - I'm interested in anything you might be able to find out about John Nee 26/501. He is listed as a private in some places, but as a lance-corporal on Thiepval memorial. He was KIA on 01/07/1916 I assume coming down that awful hill into La Boiselle. I wonder if he might have been a 'battlefield promotion' on the day? Anything you could find would be hugely appreciated - I've got Sheen's book, medal cards and information from the 'soldiers killed' databse but that's it.

Incidently, was in La Boiselle in March and have some photos if anyone is interested? Going back in July to be there at 07:30.

Greetings All from the Land Downunder,

My Dad Chris Grieves 24/1509 24th Battalion, was wounded at La Boiselle 01 Jul 1916. I too planto be on the rim of the Lochnagar Crater at 0730 on 01 Jul 2006. Richard Dunning, the owner of the crater has asked me to lay a wreath to the Tyneside Brigade. I would be delighted to share this honour with others who have Tyneside Brigade connections. Please get in touch if you are interested. I saw a recent article that referred to " War Diary of the 24th Northumberland Fusiliers, 1 July 1916 " Does such a diary exist? How would I get to view it?

Regards,

Tom Grieves.

Hi folks - I'm interested in anything you might be able to find out about John Nee 26/501. He is listed as a private in some places, but as a lance-corporal on Thiepval memorial. He was KIA on 01/07/1916 I assume coming down that awful hill into La Boiselle. I wonder if he might have been a 'battlefield promotion' on the day? Anything you could find would be hugely appreciated - I've got Sheen's book, medal cards and information from the 'soldiers killed' databse but that's it.

Incidently, was in La Boiselle in March and have some photos if anyone is interested? Going back in July to be there at 07:30.

Greetings All from the Land Downunder,

My Dad Chris Grieves 24/1509 24th Battalion, was wounded at La Boiselle 01 Jul 1916. I too planto be on the rim of the Lochnagar Crater at 0730 on 01 Jul 2006. Richard Dunning, the owner of the crater has asked me to lay a wreath to the Tyneside Brigade. I would be delighted to share this honour with others who have Tyneside Brigade connections. Please get in touch if you are interested. I saw a recent article that referred to " War Diary of the 24th Northumberland Fusiliers, 1 July 1916 " Does such a diary exist? How would I get to view it?

Regards,

Tom Grieves.

[barrynee]

Tom

Look forward to seeing you at Lochnagar on the 1st. Have you been to La Boiselle before?

[Tom Grieves]

Tom

Look forward to seeing you at Lochnagar on the 1st. Have you been to La Boiselle before?

No Barry, it will be my first visit, its a long way from Australia. I have found a place to stay in Perrone. However, as I do not know my way around, I am concerned that getting from Peronne to Lochnagar might be a problem for me at 0730 on 01 Jul 06. I am hopiong that the roads will not be packed with vehicles. I will be in a car hired from Calais. I am just hoping all goes well. If you have any clues for me please let me know.

Kindest Regards,

Tom Grieves.

[barrynee]

Hi Tom

I think it's great that you're coming all the way from Oz. I went to La Boiselle for the first time this year, it's a pretty unremarkable place on the face of it and interestingly hasn't actually spread all that far beyond where it was before the great war... it's good to go even if just to get a feeling for the topography of the place.

My mate and I are going to drive down to La Boiselle from Calais late on Friday night. Our plan is to bring a tent but we'll probably just sleep in the car so that we're definitely at Lochnagar on time. Not really used to 'roughing it', but in the circumstances am happy to make an exception!

Saw an interesting point on the forum recently that said the British army worked on UK time when in France - so not sure whether the ceremony is due to start at 07:30 Uk time or 07:30 French time. I suppose the former would be more appropriate. We're planning to be up very early anyway, so hopefully should make it.

Not sure how long it will take from Peronne, but I guess the earlier you leave the better. There are rumours that the roads will be shut on the saturday with a park and ride service in operation from Albert - so worth keeping an eye on the forum and maybe getting some advice from Mr. Dunning.

It would be interesting to know if any of the Northumberland Fusiliers buffs (Graham Stewart etc) are planning to make the trip as well?

Best of luck with the travel plans

Cheers

Barry

[Tom Grieves]

Barry,

Richard Dunning sent me this:

There will be a lot of congestion in La Boisselle. Leave an extra 30 mins to walk up to the Crater as they are resurfacing the road. Aim for at least 6.45am as this year is an unknown quantity.

I am pretty sure they will be working on 'French Time" I leave for UK in 2 days, but do not have a contact telephone in UK as yet. If you can send a email with a contact phone number for you, I'll contact you when I get to UK. As I will have limited Internet access, please send you number to my email grievest@bigpond.net.au I think I'll be wearing a slouch hat at the service so if we don't get to make contact again, please look for me at the Lochnagar Crater. I look forward to meeting you.

Kindest Regards,

Tom Grieves

[laughton]

Chris and Richard

Sorry, just noticed this thread.

I have not got this War Diary, but will be able to get copies of the dates requested, from the film in Newcastle library next time I am in, if you still want it.

Kate

YES KATE ---- I am in Canada so do not come here as much now. I really do need that part of the war diary. That is the most important date and the only page that I can not read in the war diary from Chris's report.

You would be my hero!!!

[laughton]

Thanks to Kate I got the missing information for the 26th NF war diary.

Another fine example of the Great War Forum friends.

[Tynesider]

Chris, I have all the TI war diary's, which part of the 9th onwards can't you read ? I could transcibe it or send you a scan ?

Martin

[gnr.ktrha]

Hello,

A lady I do gardening for had a relative in the Tyneside Irish. His name was Fred Cessford. He served as 6-4106. As you will not he started with the 6th Bn. Kate found him in the 6th War diary, he went sick on the 26th March 1916. I have been told, but have not yet see his medal roll entry, but it states he served with the 1/4th 26th and 25th battalions.

It would make her day if anyone had come across anything else relating to him.

Heres hoping.

Regards,

Stewart

[Nigel M]

Martin

My great grandfather Charles Henry James Meek served with the 4th Tyneside Irish, was wounded during the Somme and apparently transfered to the 2nd Tyneside Irish. I appreciate your interest is with the 3rd however could you suggest where I could continue my research. Any help would be appreciated

regards

Nigel

[laughton]

Stewart & Nigel:

My grandfather served with the 3rd Tyneside Irish (26th Northumberland Fusiliers) and I have all his information on his web site:

George Van Wyck Laughton, M.C.

George was Canadian and started in the CEF but took an Officer's position with the BEF and ended up in the Tyneside Irish. I started my research here on this forum some time ago, and even had the pleasure of having Chris Baker do the work for me after I reached a road block.

I have Sheen's book on the Tyneside Irish and anything else I could find (all are listed on the web site) and I looked up the two names. Here are the results:

Fred Cessford:

- no records

Charles Henry James Meek:

- Private

- from Esther Pit Cottages, Burnhopefield

- 27th Battalion

- #513 D Company

- discharged April 12, 1918

- transfer to 25th, new number 204612

- born Drybrook, Glouccs

- Died April 12, 1918 at age 36

From that I found C H J Meek on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission:

MEEK, C H J at QWGC

Son of Beriah and Jane Meek, of 9, Bloomfield Terrace, Blackwood, Mon.; husband of Lily Meek, of 5, Chapel Row, Teams, Gateshead-on-Tyne

That is all I have from here in Canada,

Richard

Edited 9 August , 2016 by laughton
Links repaired August 9, 2016 as web site had changed

[laughton]

QUOTE (sandyford @ Apr 28 2006, 06:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chris and Richard
Sorry, just noticed this thread.
I have not got this War Diary, but will be able to get copies of the dates requested, from the film in Newcastle library next time I am in, if you still want it.
Kate

Sorry I did not post these earlier, but I did "clean up the pages" for my relatives that are going to the Vimy Re-dedication in April 2007 and so I have added those to Grandfather Laughton's web site. Others may want to recover these missing pages.

26th NF War Diaries Recovered, April 1917

(link fixed February 10, 2016 - wow where did those 10 years go!)

[laughton]

I went back to look up this war diary for another and saw the link above was broken - that is now repaired. Stopped me in my tracks when I saw that post was from 10 years ago! I had more hair then!

I recently also put his original trench map for April 9, 1917 showing his advance at Roclincourt, as a Google Earth overlay - old and new together!

I then made a new version of that with the coordinates off the trench map, using a 1:10,000 trench map off the IWM DVD collection:

The details as originally written by my grandfather for the attack are here: http://laughton.ca/mirror/military/ww1/gvlaughton/vimy2.htm

This is a little of the text - the times and stages are on the web page in a table.

At zero hours we leave our assembly trenches and push forward as soon as possible. The whole idea being to get into "No Mans Land" before Hun barrage starts. 24th & 25th take first two german lines. Short yards at first line. Barrage works back until it reaches Black Line. At 0+34 barrage lifts and 20th B takes Black line. Meanwhile we lie at N front line trench. Each cmp then move up without orders to German 3rd line and try and re-organize. Do not bother about straightness of line but follow the barrage.

Barrage halts about 300 yards in front of black line and remains about 1 hr. * 24th B organize and as barrage they creep forward at 0+2.6 . 15 minutes before this A & B leave Black Line and move forward to within 100 yards of Barrage. As A & B leave black line we immediately push forward into it. When we get into BLACK we immediately organize and consolidate.
...............
Frontage
Brigade - 600 yards
Battalion - 300 yards
26th Battn - 600 yards
...............
* Insert here. Each cmp sends up one platoon to take over strong point so as to leave 24th & 25th free.

Barrage remains in front of Blue Line for 0 + 6 hours. 46 min. If we are more or less a complete battalion 26th & 2th will take Brown line 1200 yards beyond BLUE LINE. When orders are received we will move up beyond Blue Line and organize for attack. At 0 + 6 hrs + 31 will move up under barrage and will then work forward about 1000 yards. Each cmp ? on 2nd Platoon front with each platoon in two lines. 27th move up on our left. Moppers Up will move up with leading company and clean up trench ?. Blue and Brown lines and stick there until other two platoons come up and then act as reserve.

Two leading companies take two lines in BROWN Line and third cmp remains in first trench of Brown line and mop up. Barrage halts in from of Brown line and we send out patrols and LEWIS GUN sections sent forward to dig in and at night these positions will be connected up and eventually will become our front line.

Flank Platoons must keep touch with people on their flanks whenever we halt in a trench. The best way to do this is to crawl along top and best way to get Hun is to crawl along parapet and shoot him in the bottom of the trench. (Here remind Lewis Gunners that they must use ? bombing fight). Also impress men of importance of rifle and bayonet.

Each little section freeze until any little bit of ground they get hold of and try and get touch with remainder of platoon. Bombs carried forward by men are not for his own use but he is merely a carrying parties. At Brown line collect all bombs, very lights, etc. etc. into dumps.

Prisoners. be careful that man is sincere. IF prisoners show slightest objection leave them there. One man ought to be enough to take care of 10.
Trophies. none to be collected until orders are given.
Tricks. no helmets, flags, etc. to be collected
Pea Bombs. Throw one down entrance and stand at other.
Dugouts. see that everyone is clear.

[tullybrone]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for your post.

My avatar is Pte 27/1048 Richard Keogh my gu by marriage. He was originally B Company 4th TI. Survived 1st July 1916 but wounded 4th Sept 1916 by shellfire that killed his younger brother Pte 27/1497 Thomas Keogh. Richard transferred to 2nd TI March 1917 on recovery from wounds and KIA 9th April. He is buried in Roclincourt Valley Cemetery.

The Keogh brother's are mentioned in 1st edition of John Sheen's book as Thomas transferred from South Irish Horse to join Richard in 4th TI. I let John have a copy of Richard's photo and it is featured in subsequent editions of his book.

Regards

Steve Y

[jonbem]

Hi Richard

what a great site and project you have put together. My Grt Unc Pte 50236 Fred Ward was in 27th Tyneside Irish. He was originally buried B.25.b.9.9 before concentration. On the last overlay above that is near the ref: B21.c.0.0 just north of Autoroute des Anglais. I have read in reports about German machine gun enfilade from "The Pump". Do you have any reference to this?

regards

Jon

[laughton]

Sorry for the delay - had not noticed this post!

 

[jonbem]

Hi and many thanks.

I had managed to track it down. So my Great Uncle got past there, but not much further.

 B.25.b.9.9 is very top right corner of your above map.

 

regards

Jon