kevin Posted 16 March , 2006 Share Posted 16 March , 2006 Could some kind soul but a question that has bugged me for along time, why does Pte Buter VC headstone carry the White Horse of Hanover and not the coat of arms of Leeds?This was the cap badge of both the 17th and 15/17th Battlion West Yorkshire regiment of which he served in France. Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen D Posted 16 March , 2006 Share Posted 16 March , 2006 Probably because his family or whoever had the gravestone erected wasn't as knowlegable as us lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin Posted 16 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 16 March , 2006 Owen Butler been a VC winner and a member of the VC honour guard for the burial of the unknown soldier, i thought he would of been proud of the Battlion he joined and would of made his wishes known to his family and the history behind it all, and also for him to be a Leeds lad as well. I know if i was is son or Grandson i would have made sure the correct badge was engraved. The only other answer i can come up with itis based on the CWGC headstone badge for the Westyorkshires. Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Mills Posted 17 March , 2006 Share Posted 17 March , 2006 Kevin From my experience it is the folks who are left behind who have the last say as to what is put on a headstone, subject to approval from the authorities, wether it seems right or wrong. Rodney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin Posted 17 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 March , 2006 Rodney My own experiences point in the same directions as your reply. Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 18 March , 2006 Share Posted 18 March , 2006 This photo looks very much like one I took over ten years ago and sent in to the History of the VC website, even down to the bird lime streak on the left hand side. Billy Butler was not a man of great means and when he died in 1972 he left no provision for a headstone to be erected and nor did his family have the money to put up a marker. In correspondance with his neice some years ago, I was told that the headstone was put up by some very well meaning people who gained the family's permission, but nothing more. Any regimental details were furnished by the regimental museum. I know when I took Billy Butler's niece and nephew to the grave in the mid 1990's they were both very impressed with it. By that time the headstone had been in place for around ten years and they had not been able to visit the grave due to ill health and disability. On that day the closest family Billy Butler had left were happy with what they saw and for me that was all that mattered. Is the badge wrong though? I have seen a number of photographs showing Billy Butler in the company of other VC holders, and his cap badge is unmistakable - the Hanoverian horse. Could it be possible that as he was attached to a Trench Mortar Battery, he could have been told to adopt the horse and drop the Leeds Arms? If we can't pin down an answer I'll continue to wear my Leeds Arms in his honour! Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin Posted 19 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 19 March , 2006 Nigel Thank you for informing me of the circumstances of the Headstone. My understanding of Pte Butler VC was that when he returned to France he joined the 15/17th Battalion, i could be wrong. The photos you have seen, where these taken after the War? Yes the photo is the one from the VC site. Nigel thank you once again for the infomation. Regards Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 20 March , 2006 Share Posted 20 March , 2006 Kevin, The photo's I referred to were taken at the time of his investiture so although Billy Butler was not a 3rd Ypres VC he was pictured alongside some. Lets think.... Egreton and Ockenden certainly were amongst the group. IIRC he did go back to 15/17th West Yorks and should have adopted the Leeds arms, but I think the 17th prior to amalgamation wore the Hanoverian horse, although I'd be happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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