Barry Williams Posted 13 March , 2006 Share Posted 13 March , 2006 Hi and thanks for opening up this mail. As a local researcher of our war memorial I have been approached by the parish council who need help in deciding whether or not the statue of the Durham Light Infantryman depicted above in image1, had a bayonet attached to his rifle. It has been persistently rumoured for many years that the original did have an attached bayonet which was accidentally snapped off by over enthusiastic boy scouts or CLB members in the thirties during a general clean up. Much to the credit of our councillors, a major renovation scheme is about to be undertaken of the memorial thus it is essential that we know for sure. Only a couple of poor photographs have been traced and the newspaper accounts of the unveiling ceremony (3rd Sept 1921) make no mention of such in their descriptions. The statue was designed and executed by Messrs. Jenkins and son of Torquay well known in connection with the Cenotaph at London, but all attempts to contact them have failed, it is possible the firm as such no longer exists. Personally I doubt that the rifle was ever fitted with a bayonet and would like to present the reasoning for my doubts to the forum pals, please feel free to shoot holes in my theories, my only desire is to reach a safe conclusion. Please consult the following images and statements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Williams Posted 13 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2006 Image 2. Purely circumstantial! I would have thought bayonets would only be fixed prior to (a) going into action or ( during a ceremonial parade, as the figure has his steel helmet attached to his large pack this negates (a) and I don’t think large packs with attached helmets would normally be worn on ceremonial parades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Williams Posted 13 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2006 Image 3. Two tubular structures are visible just below the small pack, I assume the one on the left is the entrenching tool handle and on the right the bayonet scabbard. If we forecast the line of the scabbard up to above the web belt there is a slight protrusion which could indicate a bayonet handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Williams Posted 13 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2006 Image 4. Unveiling Ceremony by Lt Col J Morley Longden DLI. Rough calculations would suggest that the tip of a bayonet when fixed to a SMLE would be approximately in line with the chin of a soldier of average height. Even though the statue is partially draped with a sheet, this is clearly not so. Maybe the statue was damaged prior to the ceremony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Williams Posted 13 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2006 Image 5. A photograph of the memorial taken after the unveiling ceremony. Not much to comment on here, but it does seem as though the first couple of inches of a rifle are just visible above the right hand and rather solid lines around the collar area etc. appear to be unbroken, again suggesting a rifle without a bayonet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Williams Posted 13 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2006 Image 6. This troubles me, the right hand is elevated away from the left hand as if grasping the weapon and the bayonet handle, but would the hand be wide enough to cover the bayonet handle and the foresight protectors too? Would a good soldier ever cover the foresight and protectors and even the muzzle with possibly a wet, sweaty or dirty hand? Or could it be that the bayonet retention fixture is enough to cause the elevation of the hand and that the first couple of inches of the rifle have been snapped off, which would include the protectors and the “Bayonet Boss” thus giving rise to the broken bayonet tale? Maybe a pal with such equipment could simulate these conditions, I’m sure such a report would be of immense value. Basically there are four possible scenarios: (a) The statue was fitted with a bayonet which was snapped off before the ceremony ( The statue was fitted with a bayonet which was snapped off after the ceremony © The statue was never fitted with a bayonet (d) The statue was never fitted with a bayonet and the forepart of the rifle was damaged after the ceremony possibly in the Thirties. I eagerly look forward to your input and hope it will help us in arriving at a significantly safe conclusion. Thank you in anticipation, Barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 13 March , 2006 Share Posted 13 March , 2006 I'd tend to agree that it looks like his bayonet is still in the scabard. Looks like the muzzle and foresight of the rifle are missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Blanchard Posted 13 March , 2006 Share Posted 13 March , 2006 Hello Barry, Coming from Peterlee and having relatives who came from both Shotton and Wheatley Hill I am very interested in your project of researching the war memorial and the men from the area. My Great Uncle Tom Williams and Grandfather and their brothers worked down the pits at Shotton, Wheatley Hill, Wingate and Thornley. I would be very interested to see what information you have uncovered. I presume you have been in contact with Fred Bromilow who is currently involved in researching the war memorial at Thornley. Regards David Excellent photographs of the memorial BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike10764 Posted 13 March , 2006 Share Posted 13 March , 2006 Great photos, Barry I think the end of the rifle is missing, not the end and a bayonet. Certainly from the unveiling ceremony picture(I cannot see the ceremony being performed unless the statue was OK, they would have surely just out the ceremony off until repairs were done) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Posted 14 March , 2006 Share Posted 14 March , 2006 Barry, I am inclined to agree with Spike. It is unlikely that a damaged statue would have been unveilled. Was 3 Sep 21 chosen to unveil the site for any particular reason? (If so, that would be the one reason that a broken memorial may have been unveilled, to be repaired later) Good luck with the project. Roxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherree Posted 14 March , 2006 Share Posted 14 March , 2006 Great photos Barry. I don't know about the bayonet bit. Wouldn't it have been almost sticking him in the face if it had been there? The boy scouts probably just broke off the tip of the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 14 March , 2006 Share Posted 14 March , 2006 In the photo with " two tubular structures", I am sure I can see the curved quillion of a bayonet. I reckon the statue is missing the muzzle and foresight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Williams Posted 22 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 22 March , 2006 Hi just before this post slips off the bottom of the page I would like to say a big thank you to the above posters who have been very helpful: squirrel, (super fast reply, less than 22 secs), david, spike, Roxy, sherree and trutherqw. I am much more confident than I was previous to posting. Maybe I can post before and after pictures when the renovation is complete. Cheers Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 22 March , 2006 Share Posted 22 March , 2006 Look forward to the pics when the restoration is completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 7 July , 2019 Share Posted 7 July , 2019 Hi, I’ve been advised whilst visiting the area to contact Barry Williams who can possibly help with a couple of queries. Can anyone advise the best way to contact him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 7 July , 2019 Admin Share Posted 7 July , 2019 8 minutes ago, Shannonlouiseblackburn said: Hi, I’ve been advised whilst visiting the area to contact Barry Williams who can possibly help with a couple of queries. Can anyone advise the best way to contact him? Welcome to the forum Barry hasn't logged on since March 2018 but if you reply to this you will have made the 2 posts necessary to use the Private Message system. Click on his name and select message (the envelope icon). Once you have sent the message Barry will be alerted by an email sent to his registered address. Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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