Repatriation of bodies following the end of the war

[dorrie]

The Commonwealth War Graves commission (or as it was imperial War Graves Commission ) refer to eqaulity and that bodies should not be returned home. Is this making reference to the fact tha those with money could return there relatives home and the those without could not. Which I am sure would have create a very difficult situation as well as the nigt mare of logistics etc. Despite the idea of equality were many bodies returned home? Can anybody point me to any artilces books etc that are related to this subject?

Thanks

Dorrie

[Terry Denham]

This is a subject I have been researching for several years now and hope to publish the results one day.

Repatriation from a war zone was banned from mid-1915. Prior to that time only a handful of officers were repatriated to the UK due to relatives having to pay the cost. The ban was put in place mainly because of the logistical, health and morale problems the return of thousands of bodies would create. The cost would have been irrelevant as it would be borne by the relatives - presumably.

A tiny number of men were repatriated to Canada from war zones after the war through illicit means and also, of course, the Unknown Soldiers.

To date, I have traced only 27 British men repatriated from a war zone during the war - all before the ban was instituted. In addition there were a handful returned after the war including the Unknown Soldier, a merchant seaman and three men from India.

The ban did not apply to Canadians etc who died in the UK and quite a few of these were returned home. I am currently researching those Canadians so returned home from the UK and USA. Only one Australian was ever repatriated plus their Unknown Soldier. A few South Africans were also returned home from German South West Africa. No NZs were returned other than their recent Unknown Soldier.

[egbert]

Here is the equivalent procedure for the American war dead of WW1 (excerpt from American Battle Monuments Commission):

Following World War I and II, the interment of the remains of War Dead was carried out by the American Graves Registration Service, Quartermaster General of the War Department. At that time, the next of kin authorized to make the decision regarding their loved one’s interment was given the option of having the remains returned to the U.S. for permanent interment at a national or private cemetery or permanently interment at the overseas American military cemetery in the region where death occurred.

The interments of World War I and World War II remains at the overseas American military cemeteries are permanent. It is no longer possible to repatriate the remains of those interred at these American military cemeteries. The program of final disposition of these remains was carried out by the American Graves Registration Service, Quartermaster General of the War Department under the provisions of Public Law 389, 66 th Congress and Public Law 368, 80 th Congress. It entitled the next of kin authorized to make disposition of the remains to select one of the following alternatives:

Permanent interment in an American military cemetery on foreign soil specifically designed, constructed, and maintained in perpetuity as a memorial to American War Dead.

Repatriation of the remains to U.S. soil for interment in a national cemetery.

Repatriation of the remains to the individual’s homeland or that of their next of kin for interment in a private cemetery

A provision of the law terminated authority to make further disposition of remains on December 31, 1951, when the decision of the next of kin became final.

[dorrie]

Thank you both for your infomation really useful. Hope it is not too long before your info is published Terry

Thanks

Dorrie

[salientguide]

Dorrie The Unending Vigil by Philip Longworth ISBN 0-436-25690-8 is the story of the forming of the Imperial War Graves Commission and the establishment of its principles of individual commemoration and non-repatriation, principles especially the latter that were most bitterly resisted, by some sections of influential society, until enshrined by parliament in its terms of reference. A really good read, SG

[Hedley Malloch]

The US allowed repatriation of remains until the late 40s/early 50s. The last big call to relatives who wanted remains repatriated came in 1948/9 I think. Many bodies were taken from England, notably Cambridge and Brookwood, back to the USA

The US attitude contrasted with that of HMG who have steadfastly refused to repatriate remains on grounds of cost. HMG greatly feared the embarrasment which could be caused by voters comparing their relatively ungenerous attitude to body repatriation with those of their American allies. There was a body of opinion which demanded repatriation for the bodies of UK servicemen, too.

HMG resolved this dilemma by insisiting that the exhumations of US servicemen buried on British soil were carried at night and in complete secrecy. The US authorities complied. The bodies were exhumed at night and transported by lorry to Southampton without ceremony.

[John_Hartley]

To date, I have traced only 27 British men repatriated from a war zone during the war - all before the ban was instituted.

Terry

Is Lt William Gladstone one of the 27?

KIA on 13/4/15 and buried at Hawarden. He was the grandson of the former Prime Minister.

John

[Terry Denham]

John

He certainly is.

[ackimzey]

The body of my great uncle, Grover Carter, was repatriated. According to newspaper reports, he had been buried in Flanders Field until 1924. Family history (oral) is that his mother, Viola, could not be truly comforted until he was laid to rest in the Carter family plot in Oak Hill Cemetary, Selmer, Tennessee. She really wanted to "see" his body but two of her adult sons convinced her this would be a really bad idea. I'm glad they did!

Ann

[John_Hartley]

John

He certainly is.

Oh, jolly good.

My interest isnt in him but one of his gardeners, but it'll be a nice little snippet to pop into his story.

John

[Peter Gower]

Terry: I have two bodies repatriated in my Kingston, Ontario database if your research extends this far. They are Lt.-Col Frank Strange who dies 6 Jan 1915 in Salisbury, UK and is buried in Kingston, Ontario; and another whose name I cannot put my fingers on at present. Tell me if you are colecting Canadians. Peter

[Terry Denham]

Peter

Yes I would be interested in the details.

My main research consists of those who were repatriated from war zones but I have a healthy subset of research dealing with those who were repatriated from 'safe' countries.

Most of these are Canadians repatriated from the UK or USA back home of which there were many of all ranks.

Contact me off Forum with the info. I appreciate the help.

[treetop]

Some time ago I did some research into Sir James Knott a prominent Victorian entrepreneur in NE who founded the Prince shipping line and stood as MP for while. He lost 2 sons in WW1 ,one on the somme,and never recovered after but campaigned in parliament and the corridors of power to bring their bodies home to UK without success.I believe he did manage to have both reburied together in Flanders but that was all. If his money and influence couldnt prevail I think it is safe to assume that there must have been a very strong political will to prevent the privileged few achieving this.

[KevinBattle]

This topic came up recently on another forum.

Without realising this thread existed, I enquired of the CWGC as there were 2 threads raised on that forum regarding:-

LEGGETT, ALAN RANDALL AUFRERE. Rank: Lieutenant. Date of Death: 31/10/1914. Age: 21.

Regiment/Service: North Staffordshire Regiment 1st Bn. Awards: Mentioned in Despatches

Grave Reference:1293. Cemetery:CHERITON (ST. MARTIN) CHURCHYARD

Additional Information:Son of Lt. Col. Frederick Octavius Leggett (late R.A.O.D.) and Maria Leggett, of Underhill Hall House, Cheriton, and later of High Grange, North Rd., Hythe. Born at Rochester. One of three brothers who fell, and to whose memory the Chancel Screen and Memorial Cross in St. Martin's Church, Cheriton, are dedicated. See also, Wilfred Noel and Eric Henry Goodwin Leggett.

also

LIDDELL, JOHN AIDAN. Rank: Captain. Date of Death: 31/08/1915. Age: 27.

Regiment/Service: Royal Flying Corps 7th Sqdn. and 3rd Bn. Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. Awards: V C, M C

Grave Reference: E. R.C. 2257/8. Cemetery: BASINGSTOKE (SOUTH VIEW OR OLD) CEMETERY.

Additional Information:Son of John and Emily C. Liddell, of Sherfield Manor, Basingstoke.

Citation: An extract from "The London Gazette," dated, 23rd Aug., 1915, records the following:-"For most conspicuous bravery and devotion to duty on 31st July, 1915. When on a flying reconnaissance over Ostend-Bruges-Ghent he was severely wounded (his right thigh being broken), which caused momentary unconsciousness, but by a great effort he recovered partial control after his machine had dropped nearly 3,000 feet, and notwithstanding his collapsed state succeeded, although continually fired at, in completing his course, and brought the aeroplane into our lines - half an hour after he had been wounded. The difficulties experienced by this officer in saving his machine, and the life of his observer, cannot be readily expressed, but as the control wheel and the throttle control were smashed, and also one of the under-carriage struts, it would seem incredible that he could have accomplished his task."

and

RHODES-MOORHOUSE, WILLIAM BARNARD. Rank: Lieutenant. Date of Death: 27/04/1915. Age: 27.

Regiment/Service: Royal Flying Corps 2nd Sqdn. Awards: V C, Mentioned in Despatches

Grave Reference: In the grounds of Parnham House, West of house. Cemetery: PARNHAM PRIVATE CEMETERY, BEAMINSTER.

Additional Information: Son of Edward Moorhouse, of Parnham House, Dorset; husband of Linda Rhodes-Moorhouse.

His son William Henry Rhodes-Moorhouse DFC, fell in the 1939-1945 War.

(I'm pretty sure Terry has these, but I'd also be interested in knowing who else is on the List and whether any further Names have been traced.)

I also would like to thank the chap at the CWGC for his clear and constructive response which fits in with the information above

[Seadog]

There was one heck of a row about the ban on repatriation when it was announced and from this distance in time I can quite understand why the relatives would get upset.

See

Empires of the Dead

David Crane

ISBN 978-0-00-745668-0

Norman

[NigelS]

A recent thread  Soldiers body brought home linked to this thread, and I thought it preferable to post - with apologies - on this rather than the new.  'The Unending Vigil'  (Philip Longworth) gives that Marshall Joffre had issued an order in March 1915 'banning exhumations during the period of war' with the repatriation of the body of the grandson of WE Gladstone ' in obedience from pressure from a very high quarter' occurring 'in spite' of it. Subsequently Fabian Ware is given as having persuaded the Adjutant-General to issue a further order banning exhumations & repatriations 'not only on the grounds of hygiene "but also on account of the difficulties of treating impartially the claims advanced by persons of different social standing"'  Presumably these orders were  published, and if so, are details available?

 

I understand that post war exhumations were banned through treaties between the UK and the countries where the casualties were interred, however this pdf file 'Soldiers' bodies, commemoration & cultural responses to exhumations in the Great War' of an article  by Laura Tradii (The Oxford Historian Electronic Edition Volume 1 issue 8) indicates that some, for payment of a fee, were exhumed & repatriated to the UK clandestinely some time after the war's end. I don't have access to the 'Sunday Express' article cited, but doubt that it names names (?) Are, assuming the newspaper reporting was factual, these repatriations, being  'under the radar',  unrecorded as being UK burials (possibly with the CWGC being unaware that the original  grave locations are actually empty?)  It seems, bearing in mind the illegal nature of the act,  that it's unlikely that  official paperwork covering a new interment in UK would ever have been created,  with knowledge of the event itself  limited to immediate family members and probably done as clandestinely (and expensively) as the exhumations.  I suspect that because of the expense, these, as with those during the early part of the war pre the official ban, would have been very limited in number. Is there any further knowledge on this aspect of post war repatriations?

 

NigelS

Edited 26 June , 2017 by NigelS
clarification

[Myrtle]

Terry

I started another thread on the GWF regarding the repatriation of Captain Henry Joseph Pace's  (RMA)  remains from Alexandria following his death from enteric fever on 7th August 1915. His burial was carried out in June 1916 at Kensal RC Cemetery, London. Out of interest, do you have this man on your list of those repatriated ?