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[Malcolm]

1st Gordon Highlanders and elements of other battalions ( Suffolk I think) at Audencourt during the Battle of Le Cateau did not receive orders to withdraw and were overwhelmed. The battalion was re-constituted from the reserve training battalion but did not go back to the 8th Brigade until October 1915.

Aye

Malcolm

[mordac]

I am interested in the Quebec question. Can our Canadian members confirm that there was initially a  good enlistment response from French Canadians but that it then fell off dramatically for whatever reason - or was the initial response luke warm as well ? Appreciate this is still a tricky subject but surely the statistics must be available.

Hi Ian:

You've asked a very difficult question. I think it's fair to say there are six distinct regions in Canada: the Maritimes, Québec, Ontario, the Prairies, British Columbia and the Territories. They ALL have different social, political, historic, economic and cultural backgrounds. It's a rare event when all of these regions see eye-to-eye on any question.

With Québec, you have the majority of the population speaking French as their first language. To add to her uniqueness, Québec was also granted (negotiated) several privileges under the British North America Act of 1867. For example Québec has both an upper and lower house (the other provinces only a legislature), Québec uses Napoleonic Law (the other provinces use English Common Law) and Québec has a duel educational system (English/Protestant and French/Roman Catholic schools) to name a few.

So lets roll the clock ahead from 1867 to 1914. When the Great war began the political leaders and people of Québec fully supported the war effort. There were just as many pro war demonstrations in the streets of Montreal as any other large city in Canada. The lineups at recruiting centres were as large in Québec cities and towns as anywhere else in Canada. However, it wasn't long before other provinces, jealous and resentful of Québec's differences, started pointing fingers and saying Québec wasn't doing enough. She wasn't supplying enough men, she wasn't providing enough war material and she wasn't patriotic enough. It should be noted that these finger pointers were mainly Ontario politicians and English language newspaper. To make matters worse, Prime Minister Sir Robert Borden didn't do or say anything to defuse the political situation. And of course Sir Sam Hughes had to have his say. The people of Québec grew resentful of these accusations and like a self fulfilling prophesy her support for the war started to evaporate.

I really don't know if this even begins to answer your question. Anyway, I'm sure other Canadian forum members will express their point of view on "The Québec Question."

Garth

P.S. - As James has pointed out, there aren't any numbers that I'm aware of that show the number of French speaking Canadians who joined the CEF.

[mordac]

Having passed on the address for the French Ancient Combatants office to (French) Canadians whose antecedants were killed in WW1 in France with the French Army, how many Quebec French went over to France and served in the French Army??

Hi Malcolm:

Another good question. Thankfully it's easier to answer than the question Ian asked.

In another thread Broz mentioned in 1914 between 2000 and 2100 emigrants from the UK returned home to join the BEF. This never happened in Québec. The number of French Canadians who went to France to join the French army would have been miniscule. Sorry, I don't have the exact numbers.

Too much time had elapsed (300 years) for French Canadians to have any strong connections to France. They had no family ties or sense of mother country the same way the UK emigrants had.

Garth

[Broznitsky]

Just to establish another point, remember that French-speaking (as a first language) Québecers might have names like Marcel Pronovost or Robert MacDonald. Thus, trying to determine "ethnicity" just from the name complicates things; so we will never know exactly how many Canadiens Français enlisted.

The Canadiens Français did not have the same ties to France as the British Canadians did to Britain. Dating back to the Plains of Abraham, French influence in Canada was on a steady decline and by 1914, Québecois would not have thought of France in the same light as their English countrymen did. As far as I know, recruiting posters with Pétain or Foch et al were never used to appeal to Canadiens Francais, and the posters flying the Union Jack and talking about homeland that were deployed served only to muddle the issue.

The pre-war militia had little Canadiens Français participation, and the militia followed strongly in the British model. There was little incentive for Québecois to join the "old boys club." Sam Hughes' 1914 abandonment of the militia mobilization scheme in favour of his own system saw the breakup of many regiments, including the French ones. The first French enlistees were split between a Maritime battalion and a Montreal English battalion, even though there was enough (1245 men) to form one completely French-speaking unit.

For the second contingent, pressure from prominent Montrealers caused the formation of the Royal French Canadian Battalion (the 22nd), along with 8th General Hospital. At least a dozen more French-speaking battalions were formed (including the 41st, 57th, 69th, etc.) Competition was stiff, with poaching of men rampant. As Morton says, "popular legend to the contrary, even the 22nd Btn had not been rapidly recruited. It took months before the necessary men had been found and the CO had to ask that his unit be transferred ... to Nova Scotia to slow the counter-flow of desertions. Other battalions had to be raided for reinforcements before the 22nd could go overseas."

I would agree with Mordac when he argues that Québec supported the war, IF we qualify that as English Québec. I must argue (over some root beers) that the Québecois were never as enthusiastic as the English. We will likely never know concretely, however, because as Mordac & James say no statistics were collected as to first language or ethnicity.

Peter (adding another research topic to his ever-growing list)