War memorial in Lansdowne Road

[wig]

wig

[Michael Pegum]

And three more:

Name: GROSS, WALTER ROBERT

Initials: W R

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Lance Corporal

Regiment: Leinster Regiment

Unit Text: 2nd Bn.

Age: 22

Date of Death: 06/11/1917

Service No: 4497

Additional information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. J. W. Gross, of 161, Richmond Road, Dublin.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: IV P. 2.

Cemetery: ROISEL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION

Name: HARE, GEORGE

Initials: G

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Lieutenant

Regiment: Royal Dublin Fusiliers

Unit Text: "D" Coy. 7th Bn.

Age: 31

Date of Death: 27/12/1917

Additional information: Son of the Rev. Henry and Helen Hare, of "Fernside," Drumcondra Rd., Dublin.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: F. 28.

Cemetery: JERUSALEM WAR CEMETERY

Name: RAVERTY

Initials: J J

Nationality: Canadian

Rank: Private

Regiment: Canadian Infantry (Quebec Regiment)

Unit Text: 14th Bn.

Date of Death: 01/09/1918

Service No: 1054072

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: I. A. 12.

Cemetery: DOMINION CEMETERY, HENDECOURT-LES-CAGNICOURT

Michael

[swizz]

Great photo wig - I find those polished brass memorials so difficult to photograph. Could the Clery mentioned be anything to do with the family who owned the department store on O'Connell Street?

Swizz

[wig]

I don't know about the Clery connection but as I know some of the family I might follow that up. It looks like Hare, of D coy of the 7th Bttn. may well be one of the men recruited to the RDF by Browning and could even be in that photograph posted earlier by Micheal?

I tried to download the form in order to register this memorial but that Irish memorials site is very very slow and I gave up.

Wig

[Michael Pegum]

I tried to download the form in order to register this memorial but that Irish memorials site is very very slow and I gave up. Wig

Sorry about the slowness, Wig. Do you have broadband? If not, I can post a copy of the form if you send a P.M. with your address. If you do have broadband, I have a problem and will see what can be done.

Michael

[Michael Pegum]

More about F. H. Browning. I found his grave in Dean's Grange cemetery in Dublin. It was very overgrown, so I arranged for it to be cleared. Here are the photos, with an unusual amount of information for a gravestone. If you want to visit, the plot is 27.U South. I will send detailed directions to anyone who wants them, as the plots are difficult to find.

The photos are: the grave before and now; the gravestone; the inscription.

[Michael Pegum]

.. that Irish memorials site is very very slow ...

Wig

I'm afraid it does need broadband for satisfactory viewing. Michael

[Ken Devitt]

Michael,

What a lovely thing to do. I wonder if he has any relatives?

Ken

[wig]

Deans Grange is also where Capt. Dietrichsen of the Sherwood Foresters is buried. He was also a barrister and also shot at Mount Street, (Dublin 4 being a good location to shoot barrister!) see: http://www.derbyshirelads.uwclub.net/Men/fc_dietrichsen.htm I have tried to find some of his relatives, so far without luck as the grave is in very poor condition and I think it might need their permission to restore.

Your photographs are really very fine. There is quite a story emerging in this thread. If Browning receruited 300 (as per grave stone) or 700 (as per his obitiury) and they were all rugby players then why doesent the Lansdowne memorial name those who fell? Are they named anywhere at all? I have yet to find a copy of Hanna's book and it may well be they are named therein.

And another thing, niether the memorial in the Land Registry, or the grave, or the Law Times obiturary mention Brownigs wife and child, althougth the "Rebellion Handbook" lists him as having a wife and child....

wig

[Michael Pegum]

Browning's obituary in the Irish Times (May 2, 1916) gives a little more information. It refers to his "young widow and little son".

I am researching him and others who appear on a memorial in Dublin, and plan to make enquiries about descendants. It's unlikely his son is still alive, but any grandchildren should be.

Hanna's book, "The Pals at Suvla Bay" has been reprinted by Naval and Military Press and it is still available (www.naval-military-press.com). There are also several copies of this reprint for sale on www.abebooks.com., and there are two copies of the first edition there as well.

Michael

[Michael Pegum]

There are two war memorials in Lansdwone isn't there ???? The one pictured above and another above the enterance with names on the "house in the corner" of lansdowne for men of the rugby club

As Lansdowne Road rugby stadium is to close finally on 31st. December, I thought I would add a footnote. Yes, there are two Great War memorials in the stadium: the I.R.F.U. Memorial already shown, and the Wanderers Football club memorial on their clubhouse at the southern corner of the grounds - see below. There is a replica of the memorial in their other clubhouse on the Merrion Road in Dublin.

Incidentally, three former members of Wanderers won the Victoria Cross, two in the Boer War and one in the Great War. Can any other sporting club match that?

Michael

[johnny_doyle]

an old thread I know but just came across the following when checking some details of Joseph Hosford, one of the IVTC men killed, which I'd like to add :

the following snippet is from the London Gazette :

(24) I wish to acknowledge the great assist-

ance I received from the Provost of Trinity

College; the clergy of all denominations;

civilian medical men; Red Cross nurses, who

were untiring in their attention to the

wounded, often rendered under heavy fire;

ambulances provided by Royal Ambulance

Corps ; the Irish Volunteer Training Corps and

the members of St. John's Ambulance Corps;

the Civilian and Officers Training Corps motor

cyclists, who fearlessly carried despatches

through streets infested with snipers ; telegraph

operators and engineers; and from the lady

operators of the Telephone Exchange, to whose

efforts the only means of rapid communication

remained available.

I am glad to be able to record my opinion

that the feelings of the bulk of the citizens of

Dublin being against the Sinn Feiners materi-

ally influenced the collapse of the rebellion.

etc...

I have the honour to be.

Your most obedient servant,

J. G. MAXWELL,

General.

and some notes from Hansard re compensation for members of the IVTC killed or wounded :

May 10th 1916

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons...19160510_HOC_28

May 17th 1916

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons...19160517_HOC_66

May 30th 1916

Mention of exercising with dummy rifles :

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1...19160530_HOL_38

July 3rd 1916

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons...9160703_HOC_195

[Michael Pegum]

an old thread I know but just came across the following when checking some details of Joseph Hosford, one of the IVTC men killed, which I'd like to add :

I would be interested in any information you have about Joseph Hosford, as I am researching the battle of Mount Street Bridge for my local history society. I haven't found any memorials to him, except, possibly, one in St. Fin Barre's Cathedral in Cork. Did he have any connection with that city? The only J. Hosford on the CWGC website was from London, so he may not have been the one from Cork.

The VTC casualties did get some recompense. Frank Browning's widow received a pension equivalent to that of a lieutenant, but only after General Maxwell put in strong pleas for justice. It was pointed out that for much of the week, while they were in Beggars Bush barracks, they were under Army orders.

Their uniform seems uncertain. Frank Browning had army-style uniform and so had some of the others, and it was probably of green colour, but I think that some were in civilian clothes with the G.R. armband.

Michael

[johnny_doyle]

Hosford worked for Brooks, Thomas and Co Ltd. He gets a mention in the company AGM notes in the Irish Times March 2 1917.

"It is with deep regret that he had to refer to the death of Mr J C Hosford, one of the most valued and trusted employees of the company. Mr Hosford had been in the employment of the company for 36years and was in charge of the Colour Department."

He was at Conarchy's Hotel in November 1915 when members of the Glasnevin Corps of the IAVTC presented Platoon Commander Weir with some gifts prior to Weir's leaving Dublin for the front. I haven't managed to work out Weir's forename or what unit he went to.

The Irish Times carries a count of the IAVTC membership in the 6th Nov 1915 issue and shows Glasnevin Corps as having 96 members. Together with St Andrew's Corps (54 members), they formed B Company, 1st (Dublin) Battn VTC.

Glasnevin's shooting team drew in a shooting competition with the Belfast Defence VTC in Dublin, 6th Sept 1915 beating off the IRFU VTC etc.

Prior to the Easter Rising they were never referred to as the GR's in the Irish Times which nearly always referred to them as the Irish Association Volunteer Training Corps (IAVTC). After the Rising, GR seemed to be OK to use.

Uniform was supposed to be light brown in colour with each member purchasing his own (as well as his rifle).

There's an entry for Hosford in the Who's Who section of the 1916 Rebellion Handbook but it carries the same info as above re his employment, being in the Glasnevin Corps VTC and being shot in Beggars Bush.

Beggars Bush had been the IAVTC HQ since approx Oct 1915.

Hosford's entry in the 1911 census :

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/page...nic_Road/13484/

[johnny_doyle]

the 1916 Rebellion Handbook lists the IAVTC dead and wounded, their rank and number of dependents :

Killed or Died of Wounds

F H Browning Sub Commandant, Widow and 1 son

Thos Harborne Pte (motorcyclist), Widow and 4 children

John H Gibbs Private, Widow

Reginald F Clery Lance Corporal, unmarried

Joseph Hosford Private, Widow and 1 child

Wounded

LH Ford Sgt (severely), Wife and children

WJ Home Platoon Commander (severely), Wife and 2 children

H Green Pte (severely), Wife

J Redding Co Sgt Mjr, Wife and 6 children

W Scott Pte, wife

George May Corporal, Wife and 4 children

RA Anderson Platoon Commander (slightly), no dependents

RA Anderson forwarded the motion to disband the IAVTC in Nov 1916.

The book also has a Nominal Roll of IAVTC defenders of Beggar's Bush Barracks.