FAAAEd Posted 6 March , 2006 Share Posted 6 March , 2006 I have had a look around this forum, at a number of books on the topic and searched the wider web and still am not 100 percent certain of the position of this notorious place. I found a map ot http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/flanders/hooge.html which suggests that the N37 follows the line of the railway line to Roulers, swinging to the east-south-east under Ypres from the west, that crosses the Mennin Road adjacent to the crossroad with the Potijze – Zillebeke road. This would indicate that Hellfire Corner was at, or near, that crossroads - marked 'A' on the attached map. This map is a section from that found on page 139 of 'A Military Atlas of the First World War' by Arthur Banks. Not visible on this map, obscured by the 'P' of Ypres is a kink in the road which may be another possibility and marked 'B' on the attached. The area encompassing both 'A' and 'B' is on the Zillebeke Ridge which would have enhanced its appeal as a target from the German point of view. Can anybody confirm. TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 6 March , 2006 Share Posted 6 March , 2006 Hello, PP - Hellfire Corner was the crossroad pointed out by arrow A on your map. Best wishes - Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAAAEd Posted 6 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 6 March , 2006 Hello, PP - Hellfire Corner was the crossroad pointed out by arrow A on your map. Best wishes - Tom Thanks very much for that Tom, much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans Posted 6 March , 2006 Share Posted 6 March , 2006 This map is more correct. The zillebeke road was never crossed by the railroad. Frans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 6 March , 2006 Share Posted 6 March , 2006 ...still am not 100 percent certain of the position of this notorious place. The roads were not always put back as they were in the Great War. Compare new with old, maps about the same scale. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 6 March , 2006 Share Posted 6 March , 2006 Great comparison Howard. If there were a before and after map of the Salient like this I think it would be tremendously interesting. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Sheldon Posted 6 March , 2006 Share Posted 6 March , 2006 But the critical point is that Hellfire Corner was the precise place where the railway intersected the road: hence the German gunners had the range to a metre. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans Posted 6 March , 2006 Share Posted 6 March , 2006 While I am at it. The N37 is build on the old bedding of the railway line. Old situation 1995. We are looking towards Ieper with Zonnebeke not far behind. Situation on the same spot last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 6 March , 2006 Share Posted 6 March , 2006 Great comparison Howard. If there were a before and after map of the Salient like this I think it would be tremendously interesting. Andy Hello Andy I am working on that very thing, a project related to linking GPS to trench maps. This image is a rough GPS track (+- 20 yards or so), showing the modern roads and the roundabout on the trench map. Some of the roads have not been re-built on the same place with errors way beyond that of my somewhat crude method of working. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughton Posted 7 March , 2006 Share Posted 7 March , 2006 The Canadian Maps, particulary those from the Nicholson authoritative text agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grantaloch Posted 10 March , 2006 Share Posted 10 March , 2006 What fantastic maps where do you get them. Ihave got a few maps,but nothing like these I along with lots of others have a great interest in maps, and would like if possible to get some information on where to aquire some of these. any help would be greatly appreciated.(Grantaloch.) Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malte Znaniecki Posted 12 March , 2006 Share Posted 12 March , 2006 I fully agree. Fantastic map ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beckett Posted 12 March , 2006 Share Posted 12 March , 2006 This famous photo is at Hellfire Corner with the riders approaching Ypres from Hooge Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanpaulbenoit Posted 12 March , 2006 Share Posted 12 March , 2006 A couple of Frank Hurley thumbnails from the New South Wales State Library which will open up to larger images. Bottom one is captioned hellfire corner. Angles of the top one look similar to Howard's map so I thought I'd include it for someone else to confirm. Very good Hurley exhibition for those unfamiliar with him here. Laughton, Great map of the gas attack. Thanks for sharing that. J.P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin P Posted 12 March , 2006 Share Posted 12 March , 2006 I agree some really good material here. Of course in addition to the maps a demarcation stone is helpfully placed near the roundabout which is a fairly recent addition to the surroundings. Colin P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinnethmont Posted 12 March , 2006 Share Posted 12 March , 2006 Peter Do you know the origin of the photo of the screened section of the Menin Road at Hellfire Corner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 12 March , 2006 Share Posted 12 March , 2006 What fantastic maps where do you get them. Ihave got a few maps,but nothing like these I along with lots of others have a great interest in maps, and would like if possible to get some information on where to aquire some of these. any help would be greatly appreciated.(Grantaloch.) Bob. Bob. Apart from getting maps from this forum, you can have a go at making them yourself. The post with the pink lines was made with Oziexplorer software (www.oziexplorer.com) using a trench map as a base. The lines came from geo-referencing a modern map, tracing the modern roads and saving as an Oziexplorer "track". Also, have a look at my article on the WFA site here and how to geo-reference a map here. Both of these will be updated soon, when I get round to it! Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grantaloch Posted 12 March , 2006 Share Posted 12 March , 2006 Hello Howard. I have in the past been on your W.F.A. site and unfortunatly what I read went right over my head, I have only been using a computer for about six months so I have neither the knowlege nor the technology to do what you suggest. I only wish I had, Will you when you finish your project share it with us, I hope so.(grantaloch.) Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 12 March , 2006 Share Posted 12 March , 2006 ...Will you when you finish your project share it with us, I hope so.(grantaloch.) Bob. Of course but I don't know if it will ever be finished! Along with some friends, I am looking at all sorts of Great War mapping projects, but as none of us are professional cartographers, we have to learn as we go. As an example of what is going on, have a look at these index maps. Not perfect but a start. I was interested in the original post as it poses a typical problem on the western front, can I find "that place". Often you can but some of the roads/railways are a fair way from their great war location. After all, if you were the post war engineer who had to rebuild them, how do you re-locate roads etc when most or even all the landmarks have been blown apart. On the face of it, they did a magnificient job! Now we can move it with GPS and its all easy. Well, nearly.... Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grantaloch Posted 13 March , 2006 Share Posted 13 March , 2006 Thanks for your reply Howard. I clicked on where you suggested, facinating. But as I say way over my head, your talking to one of the original luddites here. But good luck with your project though I know it dos'nt come down to luck. Keep us informed of your progress please.(Grantaloch.) Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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