Mons bar or not?

[chip]

hello,

i always find this forum very helpful so i thought id ask for some help with my gt grandads mic.

im going to build a display case for his medals (which i dont have, ill get copys) and his plaque (which i have) and i want to make sure that they are correct.

now i know it says he was entitled to a 1914 trio but doesnt mention the mons bar, is that the final word or is there any chance that it could have been missed off?

many thanks!

ps. heres a previous one i made for my grandads medals (RFA) and im quite proud of it!

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

There is no mention on the Card of "Clasp & Roses" which is the normal indication that the Clasp "August 5th~November 22nd 1914" has been issued,though the 2nd Battalion Essex Regt;as a whole received the Clasp,as they were in the requisite areas,it may have been that he wasn't [ill or injured?] & therefore didnt qualify for the Bar.{Those to Casualties didnt have to be claimed,being sent out Automatically;unlike those to surviving Recipients} It is possible that his name might have been missed off,but Officially according to the index Card he is apparently not entitled{However it might be prudent to accquire a copy of his Medal Roll page for the 1914 Star as this sometimes has the "Clasp & Roses" annendum in the comments section.

If he was KiA{or you know he was wounded} before 22nd November 1914 then you can be sure of his entitlement to the Clasp.otherwise it is tentative.

[Pte1643]

Just to clarify.

The qualifing dates for the Bar are as follows...

5th August to 22nd november 1914.

During which time he must have been in an area subject to enemy fire.

No Enemy Fire = No Clasp.

[Terry]

I might add that I have had a couple of trios to soldiers who were wounded in Aug-Sept.,1914, so obviously earned the clasp, but there is no mention on their MIC's.

[Stebie9173]

My great-uncle Walter was captured with 2nd Suffolks at Le Cateau. No clasp on MIC.

The difference in this case, as Harry points out, is the fact that the man was KIA in 1915, therefore should have been automatically issued with the clasp.

Steve.

[Coldstreamer]

Hello

Im very much of the opinion if its not on the MIC, then unless I see other documentary proof, the bar stays off the star

Ian

[chip]

hello,

i will have to look up the Medal Roll page for his 1914 Star and go from there.

he wasnt killed until 13/05/15 so that doesnt help either.

i think he went to a base in malta first as i have a group photo of him and this was apparently taken there, does this shed any light?

many thanks for your help.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

The 2nd Essex were @Chatham on 4th August 1914,part of the 12th Brigade,4th Division,& landed @ Le Havre on 28th August as a Unit,your man arrived some weeks later,which does suggest that he was a slightly later re~inforcement,possibly from another Essex Battalion,or was not fit for the initial embarkation,which may go some way to explain the lack of Bar.

Although possible,I would doubt it was omitted,I have seen a number of other 2nd Essex Casualty 1914 Trios & they were issued with the Clasp as a matter of course,as is the norm.

I hope the Roll will help to clear up the dilema.

I suspect the Malta photograph was taken sometime before WW1,when the Regiment were there.

As Terry states it is not uncommon to see 1914 Stars;mounted on a contemporary Bar without the Clasp;to survivors of the War who were known to be wounded in 1914[ie:~ Were known to be "within range of the Enemy Mobile Artillery"{the criteria for the Clasp},as indeed many many of them were,but as those that had survived had the claim the Clasp{it was not instituted until well after the Star}many for whatever reason,apathy,ignorance of its existence,etc;elected not to,& thus their index cards were never annotated "Clasp & Roses" & the issue never made.

[Muerrisch]

My great-uncle Walter was captured with 2nd Suffolks at Le Cateau. No clasp on MIC.

The difference in this case, as Harry points out, is the fact that the man was KIA in 1915, therefore should have been automatically issued with the clasp.

Steve.

Not quite: he needed to have qualified first! Being killed in 1915 was not enough, of course.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Taken in context in my 1st post; it reads right,had he been entitled to the Clasp it would{should} have been issued automatically,as opposed to those to surviving Recipients who had to claim it.

[Stebie9173]

Thanks, Harry.

I was assuming that my post would be read in the context of the qualification of Pte. Cunningham. I should, however, have been clearer with my post.

Steve.