55101 Posted 25 February , 2006 Share Posted 25 February , 2006 My great uncle Hubert was killed in the first world war and is listed as being in the 21st Battalion: http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=105544 I guess he lost his life at The Battle of Messines http://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/messines.htm as the date and location seems to fit. However I am puzzled his being in the 21st Battalion as this would seem to be a formation from the north of England: http://www.1914-1918.net/krrc.htm Hubert grew up and worked in London probably in Hoxton. Would appreciate any ideas on this anomaly and how i might find out more about his army life and demise. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birkettm Posted 25 February , 2006 Share Posted 25 February , 2006 Hi Martin. It could be as simple as the young man deciding to join a regiment as far away from home as possible. Why do your training and march round the countryside where you were brought up when you can travel halfway up the country, do same, and have a holiday too. I am currently watching a Memmorial Plaque on Ebay to a Northumberland Fusilier born in London, i reckon thats what happened there too. Thanks Marc p.s. there were various service regiments of the KRRC formed in London, maybe he just enlisted with his local recruiting serjeant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papineau Posted 25 February , 2006 Share Posted 25 February , 2006 His number is too high to be an original member of the 21st KRRC. It is likely he was a 1916 recruit into the KRRC, did his training with a reserve battalion in England, and was posted to he 21st Bn in France. They were part of 41st Division; this unit attacked St Eloi on 7th June 1917, which is where he is buried at Bus House. This was indeed part of the Battle of Messines. Anthony Eden, later Prime Minister, served with this battalion and was in the action at Messines. He later wrote his war memoirs, 'Another World'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55101 Posted 26 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 26 February , 2006 (edited) Thank you for the replies. One more thing, can you tell me if the militery records of those serving in the First World War are available to view? Read the extensive section on "How to research a soldier": click the link to the Long, Long Trail that appears top left on every page of this forum. Chris Edited 26 February , 2006 by Chris_Baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnock Posted 26 February , 2006 Share Posted 26 February , 2006 The 21 Bn was indeed at St. Elooi. They attacked in the first line, by 5 p.m. they had taken about 130 prisoners, including a machine gun and its team. Their casualties were very light: killed 2nd Lt. G. Mason and 6 O.R. Wounded 2Lt B.B.Beatie and 63 O.R. (Annals of K.R.R.C. - Volume V) Regards, Cnock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinglma Posted 26 February , 2006 Share Posted 26 February , 2006 Martin This might be of interest to you. Its the plaque to 21/KRRC on the old town hall in Helmsley, N Yorks. Speaks for itself really. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55101 Posted 26 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 26 February , 2006 Martin This might be of interest to you. Its the plaque to 21/KRRC on the old town hall in Helmsley, N Yorks. Speaks for itself really. Mike Thank you for the picture. Since taking up a search for my great uncle after a conversation with my father Born in 1916 who wondered what had happened to his uncle I have become very interested in his fate at the Battle of Messines. Just ordered a book on the battle from Amazon and am now becoming quite absorbed by the subject. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55101 Posted 26 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 26 February , 2006 Mike I meant to ask if you knew if thee was any historical data held in Helmsley about the regiment. Do you live in the area? I am going to a conferance in York in April so could talke some time off to look stuff up. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinglma Posted 27 February , 2006 Share Posted 27 February , 2006 Martin I'm not aware of any records being held in Helmsley. I live in London but snapped the memorial on a visit to Helmsley a year or so ago. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 27 February , 2006 Share Posted 27 February , 2006 Martin, It could be worth asking one of the forum to do a Soldier's Died in the Great War (SDGW) look-up for your great uncle Hubert. This may provide his date, and place, of enlistment. Regards Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 27 February , 2006 Share Posted 27 February , 2006 "Soldier's Died....." doesn't give a date of enlistment unfortunately, but it does tell us that H. A. Ravenor was born in Sevenoaks, Kent, and enlisted in Poplar, Middlesex. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55101 Posted 28 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 28 February , 2006 "Soldier's Died....." doesn't give a date of enlistment unfortunately, but it does tell us that H. A. Ravenor was born in Sevenoaks, Kent, and enlisted in Poplar, Middlesex. Tom Hubert lived in Highbury. What I wonder would have taken him to Poplar. Was this where people went to enlist at that time? Being very new to this facinating subject I would appreciate any pointers to the tools of discovery of a First World war soldier, this one in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinglma Posted 28 February , 2006 Share Posted 28 February , 2006 Martin His Medal Index Card which is indexed here suggests that he was originally with the Rifle Brigade. I should be at Kew this week and could have a look at the medal rolls themselves should it help. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom A McCluskey Posted 28 February , 2006 Share Posted 28 February , 2006 Hubert may have been injured. In John Jackson's book PRIVATE 12768 - Memoir of a Tommy. He enlists in the 6th Bn Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders. After an injury, he is sent to Scotland to convalesce. Upon being declared fit for active service, he reported to his regimental depot. They then sent him to the unit whose need was greatest - which was the 1st Bn Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders. I don't know if the Rifle Corps/Rifle Brigade's had a collective regimental depot, if so, this may explain the move between units. That said, there are additional factors and reasons for a soldier changing unit which will probably be discussed. Hope this helps Tom McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55101 Posted 28 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 28 February , 2006 Martin His Medal Index Card which is indexed here suggests that he was originally with the Rifle Brigade. I should be at Kew this week and could have a look at the medal rolls themselves should it help. Mike Mike That would be very much appreciated. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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