Guest Nina Posted 21 February , 2006 Share Posted 21 February , 2006 Hello all, I am back after a long break . I found my great grandfather's MIC and through the wonderful information at this site I have worked out most of what it says. I know that the date at the bottom helps to indicate which division he would have served with, but I can't find a matching date on the page at this site. So I think I must be interpreting instructions incorrectly. Can someone please tell me his likely division please? Thanks in advance, Nina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Nixon Posted 21 February , 2006 Share Posted 21 February , 2006 Nina It tells you he arrived in France and Flanders on 24th June 1915 with a battalion of the Seaforth Highlanders and that this was a wartime enlistment. The medal rolls should tell you which battalion of the Seaforths this was and hence, which division. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nina Posted 21 February , 2006 Share Posted 21 February , 2006 Thanks Paul, Are those the medal rolls held at Kew? Becaue I can't see them, as I am in Australia. Nina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nina Posted 21 February , 2006 Share Posted 21 February , 2006 I forgot to add...I was trying to establish his division on this page: http://www.1914-1918.net/embarkation.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 21 February , 2006 Share Posted 21 February , 2006 Nina Yes, the medal rolls are held at Kew and can only be inspected by personal visit. You may be able to get someone to do it on your behalf or pay a professional researcher to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Nixon Posted 21 February , 2006 Share Posted 21 February , 2006 I couldn't access the link for some reason but nevertheless also bear in mind that he transferred from the infantry to the Royal Engineers (and there's no guarantee that he therefore served in the same division with both). I suggest you follow Terry's advice and explore all the National Archive options in the first instance which will mean looking at the medal rolls (one for the 1915 star and one for the BW and Vict medals) plus doing a search for his service record in WO 363 and WO 364 - plus of course local newspapers for the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pte1643 Posted 21 February , 2006 Share Posted 21 February , 2006 A late June date would fit for involvement in Loos. By process of elimination the 9th Scottish would be my guess. Most of the other divisions (Involving Seaforths) are either too early or fall after this date (24th June 15). Please don't take this as gospel, it's only my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nina Posted 22 February , 2006 Share Posted 22 February , 2006 Thank you Terry, Paul and Pte, I have added my great grandfather's Transfer Papers here in the hope that the good people here can perhaps tell me anything more? I am actually having trouble dovetailing the two records together into something that makes sense to me, as I am a complete novice at this sort of thing. I believe I know WHAT both cards are saying, but joining the jigsaw together is a little beyond me. Can anyone help put things in order for me? Nina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 22 February , 2006 Share Posted 22 February , 2006 I think your man enlisted on 27th February 1915. At first glance it looked to me like 1916, but I think that is a 5. He trained for four months (probably about minimum. Bearing in mind his age it is possible he could have had prior military experience) He then went overseas in June 1915. The possibilities are 2nd Seaforths (in since 1914, to which he may have gone as a reinforcement draft), or 7th or 9th battalions in the 9th (Scottish) Division, which went over in May 1915. Rather early for a replacement draft to either battalion, so I would lean in the direction of the 2nd battalion, but that is a guess. Later in the war (I would say about early 1917, judging by the number) he transferred to the Royal Engineers - Number 251385. This was a "standard" RE number, which could belong to any unit. Later in the war, "WR" (Waterways and Railways) men were again renumbered. He was in this ssection at the time and would have been renumbered to WR/268163. He was discharged from the Royal Engineers on 3.7.1919 (probably to Class Z Reserve). At the time he was serving with the IW&D (Inland Waterways and Docks) section of the Royal Engineers. Hope this helps, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nina Posted 22 February , 2006 Share Posted 22 February , 2006 Thanks Stebie, That makes much more sense to me...the order of how my g-grandfather joined the fight is much clearer to me now. My dad says his grandfather also fought in the boer war, but I have not yet found any evidence of this. However, it seems to fit with what you said about minimum training. He then went overseas in June 1915. The possibilities are 2nd Seaforths (in since 1914, to which he may have gone as a reinforcement draft), or 7th or 9th battalions in the 9th (Scottish) Division, which went over in May 1915. Rather early for a replacement draft to either battalion, so I would lean in the direction of the 2nd battalion, but that is a guess. Being a complete newbie, I am not too sure what this paragraph means...I tried looking up the 2nd Seaforths, and they seem to have fought with the 4th Division (from the link I posted above). Is that right? I find the terms battalion, division, unit etc all very confusing! Are you able to explain it to me as if I were a five year old? Many thanks for all help so far. This man, my dad's grandfather was very, very dear to my dad. They shared the same birthday almost sixty years apart. He and his wife brought my Dad up, yet there was little talk of the war days. So far, my Dad is thrilled with what you all have told me, and so am I! Nina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 22 February , 2006 Share Posted 22 February , 2006 Nina, As you've seen there are lots of different Regiments in the British Army, usually linked to Counties at that time. During WW1 these were generally "administrative" and symbolic (loyalty to the Regiment, and all that). Regiments did not generally fight together. The Regiments were broken down into battalions, which were the general "small" unit of the Army (there were smaller sub-sections but let's keep it simple) Each battalion, (e.g. 2nd Seaforth Highlanders) would be part of the next rank of organisation - the Brigade. There were generally 4 Battalions to a Brigade. Staying with the 2nd Seaforths that would be 10th Brigade. The next level above that would be Division. In this case, the 4th Division. Each Division was generally made up of 3 Brigades (3 x 4 = 12 Battalions) Above Divisional level were two more levels - Corps and Army - to which units were transferred to and fro quite regularly. For the purposes of tracking a battalion through the war, the Divisional level is quite sufficient! Hope this helps, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pte1643 Posted 22 February , 2006 Share Posted 22 February , 2006 Nina. Steve has explained the "Organisation", but for a detailed breakdown of what it all means try this link to LLT. The Army Explained Here. It explains, exactly, the meaning of the terms Division, Brigade, Battalion etc. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nina Posted 23 February , 2006 Share Posted 23 February , 2006 Thanks so much Steve and Pte...it is a lot clearer to me now, though I won't pretend I know it all now, hehe! At least his Seaforth Highlanders involvement gives me a good idea of some of the battles he was involved in. If it were only that easy to track him in RE! Thanks again, and I will probably soon put in a request for someone to have a peek for me at Kew. Nina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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