mutley Posted 20 February , 2006 Share Posted 20 February , 2006 Can anyone tell me where Royal Navy Medal Index Cards are held and secondly if an individual served in the Merchant Navy and then the RN would his medals be marked up as a Merchant Navy sailor? The individual that I am interested in is shown on the mercantile marine roll as having this medal and then written next to the British War Medal it says "Navy copied" does this mean he was in the RN? thanks in advance Mutley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 20 February , 2006 Share Posted 20 February , 2006 The RN MiCs are held @ the NA {not Online};have you checked the Online RN Papers site?;if he served with the RN {rather than RNR,MFA,etc} then he may have Papers on there. If his service with the RN & MM overlapped then he would probably have had the MMWM named as usual with the BWM/Victory {& possibly Star} named in respect of his Naval Service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutley Posted 20 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2006 Harry thank you for your reply, I haven't checked the naval records as I'm not sure that he was in the RN. I have all of his medals and they are all named to him as MFA. Its just that the paperwork for the Mercantile Marine Medal shows that the British War medal has the words "Navy - copied" next to the issue date. I also have a SWB which I believe is his, which is serial numbered RN41461. Due to these two factors I have presumed he must have been in the Royal Navy as well as the Merchant Navy. Regards Mutley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 20 February , 2006 Share Posted 20 February , 2006 Has his MMWM got MFA details on it too?that would be unusal. The MFA was I believe under the Command of the RN,so not all MFA Men received MMWM as well as the Trio/Pair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutley Posted 20 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2006 Harry his medals are named as follows: 1914/15 Star P Conway Std MFA War Medal P Conway Asst Std MFA Mercantile Marine Phillip Conway Victory Medal P Conway Asst Std MFA SWB RN41461 I have been and checked the RN online records but he is not there. I believe that he emigrated to New Zealand as there is also a 1939-45 War Medal and a NZ War Service Medal with the other medals. regards Mutley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 21 February , 2006 Share Posted 21 February , 2006 Conway was not an RN rating Mutley - he was an Assistant Steward & Steward in the Mercantile Fleet Auxiliary. if he was RN his ON (Official number) would be indented on the Star, BWM & Victory medals as well. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutley Posted 23 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 23 February , 2006 Bryan Thanks but would that be the case if he transferred into the RN after serving as a member of the MFA. Wouldn't his medals be impressed with the details of the unit he was in when he qualified?? My Grandfather was in the Leinster Regt and the Labour Corps but his medals are engraved Leinster. I still cant understand the reference to the Navy on his documents. Could he have transferred into the RN afterwards?? thanks Mutley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Yes Mutley it is very possible that he transferred to the RN after completing his MFA service, but my understanding of medal awards is that the would have been awarded the medal(s) based upon the first unit that he served in. He would earned the 4 WWI medals whilst serving in the MFA , so they would have been named to his rank or rating in that service. He would not have rec'd duplicate awards for his RN service. Perhaps that is what the entry "Navy copied" refers to. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Further to my last post above, I am sure if he transferred to or subsequently joined the RN he would have rec'd an RN ON & there would be papers for him in ADM 188. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutley Posted 25 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 25 February , 2006 Bryan thanks, I think you are right he might well have been serving as MFA under RN command or something like that. I cant find any papers on him but will keep looking. Thanks again for your help. Mutley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 1 March , 2006 Share Posted 1 March , 2006 As far as I know there are no naval MICs as they were an army record. The Navy had huge medal rolls, kept in plain and simple alphabetical order there was one roll for all RN ratings, another for all RNR, another for the RNVR and also another for the Mercantile Marine Reserve - if I remember correctly that was another name for the MFA. All at Kew, none online! If I'm right the medal roll for Conway should be in ADM 171/130. That is a separate roll from the Mercantile Marine War Medal and is the roll of medals issued by the navy. That might be what the *copied to navy" refers to. A copy of his issue being sent to the navy so he wasn't issued with duplicates. There are also rolls for the SWB (still original documents), with 1 series being in badge number order RN41461 should be in ADM 171/187. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 1 March , 2006 Share Posted 1 March , 2006 The Navy had huge medal rolls, kept in plain and simple alphabetical order Don't want to hijack, but can you put me on the right track. A relation served from 1881 to 1903 (RN) and then again from 1914 to 1919 (RNR?). What rolls should I look at for their medal entiltlements pre WW1 and during? Thanks Chris C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 1 March , 2006 Share Posted 1 March , 2006 Chris C - ADM 171 for the WWI medal rolls. You have to check his SR in ADM 188 (its available online) & determine from the ships he served on what medal entitlement he might have had - & to help you with that I need to view his SR, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 1 March , 2006 Share Posted 1 March , 2006 Thanks Bryan, I have his SR and know the ships and dates but I haven't a clue what campaigns they might have served in or what his entitlement might be. Do you know where I might discover that for the years 1881 to 1903? Could I PM you with the list of ships? Chris C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 1 March , 2006 Share Posted 1 March , 2006 Thanks Bryan, I have his SR and know the ships and dates but I haven't a clue what campaigns they might have served in or what his entitlement might be. Do you know where I might discover that for the years 1881 to 1903? Could I PM you with the list of ships? Chris C That is the biggest failing of the sevice registers, that they don't have a medals section! But it does tend to be stamped on the RNR service sheet. 'British Battles and Medals' originally by LL Gordon and then revised by Spink gives lists of which ships qualified for the various medals/ clasps. The big campaigns were: Egypt/ Sudan 1882-1898 (with breaks), although most RN involvement was over by 1886, with the notable exception of the gunboats. Boer War 1899-1902. 3rn China War 1900. But this was also the time of loads of smaller campaigns too. Caution as the Naval commitment was global and he could have missed out by being at the wrong place or be involved in actions that didn't result in medals - such as the supression of the East African Slave trade. RNR medal rolls for WW1 are in ADM 171/120-124, depending on his surname. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 2 March , 2006 Share Posted 2 March , 2006 Thanks Bryan, I have his SR and know the ships and dates but I haven't a clue what campaigns they might have served in or what his entitlement might be. Do you know where I might discover that for the years 1881 to 1903? Could I PM you with the list of ships? Chris C No Chris, be better to send me a copy of his SR - I need to see the dates he was on each to determine what medal(s) he may have been entitled to. send to: rncvr@sympatico.ca Dont get yr hopes up tho - many of them never qualified for anything as they were just not on a ship that saw active &/or campaign service in a qualifying theatre. For the big campaigns a lot of ships qualified for the Egypt/South African War/ China War medal as they were in the theatre of war for the qualifying dates. & the small campaigns such as the East & West Africa, only the smaller ships qualified & not many of them, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted 2 March , 2006 Share Posted 2 March , 2006 Thank you Bryan. I will scan a copy of the SR and send it this evening. Thanks Chris C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 3 March , 2006 Share Posted 3 March , 2006 Hi Chris, I rec'd the copy you sent & have responded - it appears as if he qualified for no active service campaign medals up until WWI, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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