ALIAS & prison sentence

[doogal]

Hi All,

A story:

After my Gt Grandfather was KIA in March 1918, his widow remarried in October 1918, to a soldier from the same regiment. Soon after the war, according to our family story, he "went to Australia", and after waiting the appropriate time, a divorce was granted here in the UK. We have the marriage certificate and his birth certificate, which gives his army number and regiment.

Now, whether "going to Australia" meant exactly that or whether it was a convenient name for something else, we don't really know.

For interest, I had a look for his service records and medal rolls at the NA and it showed, unsurprisingly that he was at one time in the same battalion as my gt grandfather. What was interesting was that his MIC and medal rolls show quite clearly that the army considered he had signed up under an alias, and had adjusted his medal details accordingly.

We know him as James Brown Welsh, West Riding Regiment, 23576 from his birth certificate and also from his marriage certificate.

The army noted this as an alias and called him Robert Nelson, West Riding Regiment 23576, enlisting in May 1916.

No service details remain for Nelson or for a James Brown Welsh under the number 23576.

However, I did find service details for a James Brown Welsh in the WO364 files - under a different army number, and part of the DLI. This soldier was discharged in March 1915 after a civil conviction for theft, for which he got three months.

He was a very similar age, and he lived in Durham (as did the JB Welsh we know).

So my thoughts and questions from this:

1. Are there two JB Welsh's the same soldier - conscription would have brought him back into the army in 1916, the second time in to the West Riding Regiment.

2. How did the name Nelson get mixed into this, especially if there is a birth certificate showing a JB Welsh & family?

OK, so these are both very open ended questions, but it is an interesting puzzle:

There may be 2 JB Welsh's, but with that exact name, I somehow doubt it, though can't prove it.

As the first JB Welsh recieved a civil conviction, where would one start trying to track these down?

"Gone to Australia" - any suggestions on how to crack that one open?

there it is, any suggestions or ideas gratefully accepted.

regards

doogal

[Terry_Reeves]

Doogal

Some County Records offices hold the Prison Calenders for their local area, which give the the prisners name, offence and sentence. There are also some held at the NA.

Terry Reeves

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Local papers may give details of his Court appearance. "Nelson" may have been the Maiden name of his Mother?;or after the town of Nelson,or even after Horatio,perhaps he was born on Trafalgar Day?Aliases tend to be taken from somewhere that has resonance with the name user.An interesting story Ive never heard of "Going to Australia!" as a euphamism for doing a bunk or otherwise scarpering,but you never know!

[doogal]

Do emigration record exist at the NA (or anywhere), or would it be a case of checking Australian immigration records?

the OZ thing is probably not a euphamism, but what we do know is that he scarpered - so Australia may equally have not been the destination - it may have been in the UK or anywhere.

doogal

[Myrtle]

There were two people called James Brown Welsh in the Durham area at the turn of the century. One was born December Quarter 1896, Morpeth, Co Durham and the other was married in Sep Quarter in 1896, Gateshead. Possibly father or uncle. I can not find a record of the older James's birth therefore am wondering if he was the James Welsh born in Scotland working as a blacksmith in Gateshead in 1901, 23 years old.

Myrtle

[doogal]

There were two people called James Brown Welsh in the Durham area at the turn of the century. One was born December Quarter 1896, Morpeth, Co Durham and the other was married in Sep Quarter in 1896, Gateshead. Possibly father or uncle. I can not find a record of the older James's birth therefore am wondering if he was the James Welsh born in Scotland working as a blacksmith in Gateshead in 1901, 23 years old.

Myrtle

Thank-you for taking the time to look this up Myrtle

I've just been sent a copy of the birth certificate - James Brown Welsh, born 15th October, 1896, father, born in Ashington and his father is noted as Arthur Welsh.

I hope to get further info on when he went to Australia soon, as I had a look on the Australian National Archive, and if it was after 1926, there is a good chance I will be able to get a lead on him.

Just to keep the WW1 content running with this - JB Welsh served with the 2nd West Riding Regiment, as did my Gt Grandfather, so I am fairly confident they served at the same time in that battalion, though its a shame I can trace JB Welsh's West Riding service records.

regards

doogal

[Myrtle]

I've just been sent a copy of the birth certificate - James Brown Welsh, born 15th October, 1896, father, born in Ashington and his father is noted as Arthur Welsh.

doogal

That's the same as the 1896 birth I mentioned. Morpeth was the registration district for Ashington. Now who was the other James Brown Welsh who married in 1896 ?

Myrtle

[doogal]

Now who was the other James Brown Welsh who married in 1896 ?

What this does indicate, is that it is highly likely that the James Brown Welsh discharged from the DLI is the same as the JB Welsh in the West Ridings, when one takes into account the similarity of age, geography and the name. I had trouble reading the mother's name for the DLI service papers, and will have to try again next time I go (take a photocopy more like), and see if it matches the name on the birth certificate.

After that, I have to work out why the Army have put this name down as an alias, changing it to Nelson.

-- I suppose (and this becomes a little far fetched) that a R Nelson took on the name JB Welsh for reasons known only to him.

regards

doogal