reilly Posted 19 February , 2006 Share Posted 19 February , 2006 Hi I am researching my great grandfather service history in WW1 His name was Patrick Driscoll and from the medal roll I have gleamed that he joined the Irish Guards but then transferred to the Military Foot Police. He was awarded the Victory, 15 Star and the British medals. He entered the war on 16/8/1915 in France - the medal roll states that his regiment no is 7048 in the Irish Guards and P1186 in the MFP. He won the medals while serving in the MFP so I assume that his career with the Irish Guards was short. Any idea what his job would have been in the MFP or what his unit would have been doing in France. Any help/suggestions/guidance to help me find out more would be much appreciated Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 19 February , 2006 Share Posted 19 February , 2006 Gary Sheffield wrote a chapter entitled 'The Operational Role of British Military Police'. It was published in Griffith's book 'British Fighting Methods in the Great War' (ISBN 0714634956). The Military Foot Police were part of the Corps of Military Police. 'Broadly speaking, the MFP (many of whom were not fit for front-line duty) performed duties on the lines of communication, while the [Military Mounted Police] served just behind the front lines'. The latter were involved in rounding up stragglers and form the focus for Sheffield's article. MFPs would have been involved in traffic control and other military police activities in the rear areas. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 20 February , 2006 Share Posted 20 February , 2006 Brian He entered the war on 16/8/1915 in France - the medal roll states that his regiment no is 7048 in the Irish Guards and P1186 in the MFP. He won the medals while serving in the MFP so I assume that his career with the Irish Guards was short. Unless the actual MIC is different to the online index then he actually qualified for the three medals whilst serving with the Irish Guards, the first named unit on the list and the one he went overseas with (note that according to the index his number 7048 is incomplete, I assume the last digit has been (partially?) removed when the card was digitised). However, his medal entitlement will be recorded on the Medal Rolls of his last named unit, in this case the MFP, but will be named to 7048x, Pte. P. Driscoll, Irish Guards. Can you post a copy of the MIC so that someone can confirm? Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reilly Posted 20 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2006 Thanks very much for the replys gents - both very helpful I have hopefully attached his records. You will note that there is two MICs, one for P Driscoll and one for T Driscoll - the one for T Driscoll is (i presume) a mis-spelling on the MIC and should in fact be a P, as the regiment details etc are exactly the same. I was always told that he was in the Irish Guards and that he received a head would (maybe this is why he was transferred to the MFP)? Anyway - again thanks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reilly Posted 21 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 21 February , 2006 I am having trouble posting the MIC - will investigate and try agin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reilly Posted 21 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 21 February , 2006 Doc1.docfingers crossed - this should work this time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 21 February , 2006 Share Posted 21 February , 2006 Brian According to the MIC, you're Great Grandfather first saw service abroad with the Irish Guards, it looks as if it was post 1st January 1916 (as theatre and date of entry are empty) that he first went. From what I can see it doesn't look as if his service number with the Irish Guards is incomplete so he was 7048, Private P. Driscoll, Irish Guards before a transfer to the Military Foot Police with a service number of P/11886. According to this MIC he was only entitled to the British War and Victory Medals which again points at a post 1st January 1916 entry into a theatre of war. Does the other MIC to T. Driscoll say anything different? Hope this helps. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reilly Posted 21 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 21 February , 2006 Hi Steve, Thanks for that, I owe you one. I have inculded the second MIC card for T Driscoll. It looks like there was a spelling mistake on the card as they have the same service number and MFP number. I found this card by accident and noticed the similarities - what do you think? The card states that T Driscoll went to France on the 16/08/16. I looked up this date in Kipling's history of the Irish Guards and this is the date the newly formed second battalion went to France. I would love to find his service record but I have been told that he stayed on in the army after the war so they won't be in the NA. Do you think its worth contacting the Guards directly? or of any other way i can find out information him? Thanks BrianDoc2.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 21 February , 2006 Share Posted 21 February , 2006 Brian Ignore most of what I said earlier, this second MIC (to T. Driscoll) makes all the difference, from the service numbers it quite clearly shows that he and P. Driscoll are one and the same. This MIC shows the additional entitlement to the 1914-15 Star (as you had previously suggested) and the entry into the theatre of war (1- France), still with the Irish Guards, as 16th August 1915 not post 1st January 1916 as I had earlier said. So, now we know that he still initially served overseas with the Irish guards as 7048, Private Driscoll, Irish Guards and entered a Theatre of War (1) France on the 16th August 1915 before a subsequent transfer to the Military Foot Police with a service number of P/11886. His service entitled him to three campaign medals, the 1914-15 Star, British War Medal and Victory Medal. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 21 February , 2006 Share Posted 21 February , 2006 I would love to find his service record but I have been told that he stayed on in the army after the war so they won't be in the NA. Do you think its worth contacting the Guards directly? or of any other way i can find out information him? Brian I don't know if his transfer to the Military Foot Police will affect this statement (I suspect it does in so much that his service record would have been passed on to the MFP) but I quote verbatim from the LLT mother site: If Grandad was the Guards [Grenadier, Coldstream, Scots, Irish or Welsh] you have an excellent chance of finding his file of service papers. The regiments hold copies at their modern London base at Wellington Barracks. Some require payment for the service, others invite a donation. In all cases, you should at first write, asking for a copy of the form that the regimental archivist requires in order to carry out a search. Address your enquiry to the Regimental Archivist, X Guards (substituting the name of the regiment you are interested in), Wellington Barracks, London. It will be helpful if you can include certain information, and if for example you do not know his number or even which Guards regiment he served with, first look him up in the medal rolls. Another alternative, if he did actually stay on in the army after 1922, is to contact the MOD who should still be holding his service record. This option is only available to next of kin and costs £25 (I believe). Contact details are: Army Personnel Centre HQ Secretariat Historical Disclosures Mail Point 400 Kentigern House 65 Brown Street Glasgow G2 8EX Tel: 0845 600 9663, option 3 Hope this helps Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reilly Posted 22 February , 2006 Author Share Posted 22 February , 2006 Hi Steve I sent a letter today to the Irish Guards archivist on the off chance they have something. I will let you know how I get on. I am now researching Patrick's brother's war records in WW1, so I may need to call on yours, and other members,of the Forum's expertise. I will post a new topic shortly. You have been a great help. All the best, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reilly Posted 16 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 16 March , 2006 Steve, Just to let you know I received Patrick Driscoll's service record back from the Irish Guards. There was a whole host of excellent information!!! Patrick joined the Irish Guards in 1990 for six years and then served six years as a reservist until 1912. He re-enlisted in the Guards on the 15th March 1915 and went to France with the second battalion on 16th August 1915. He was wounded on the 15th September 1916 and then was transferred to the Military Foot Police on 18th June 1917 for the duration of the war. Demobbed in 1919. A couple of questions that I would like to ask Steve/forum members? On his medical record the following info is recorded wounded on 15/09/16: adm 11 G.H Dannes Caniers. S.S.W head and legs (i think) severe. Dis to Bare Hare.3/12/1916 Any ideas on how to translate the above? For the life of me I can't work out what SSW stands for? Also is it possible that Patrick could have served in the Boer War, his service record is blank for 2 years, Would the information contained at the NA be any different to what the Guards hold? Thanks for your help. Cheers Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 16 March , 2006 Share Posted 16 March , 2006 Brian Excellent result On his medical record the following info is recorded wounded on 15/09/16: adm 11 G.H Dannes Caniers. S.S.W head and legs (i think) severe. Dis to Bare Hare.3/12/1916 Wounded on 15/09/16: Admitted to No.11 General Hospital at Camiers with what I suspect is Gun Shot Wounds (G.S.W. not S.S.W) to head and legs. Patrick joined the Irish Guards in 1990 for six years and then served six years as a reservist until 1912. Also is it possible that Patrick could have served in the Boer War I suspect you mean 1900 which is when the Irish Guards were formed (under Army Order No.77 of April 1900) and as far as I know they didn't serve (at battalion strength at least) in South Africa. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 16 March , 2006 Share Posted 16 March , 2006 Just as an afterthought, could S.S.W. be Shrapnel Shell Wounds? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 17 March , 2006 Share Posted 17 March , 2006 Hi A Maj A.V. Lovell-Knight has a book out on the RMPs published in 1977 by Leo Cooper Ltd ISBN 0 85052 222 6. Chapter 2 covers WW1. It may help you cheers Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reilly Posted 18 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 18 March , 2006 Cheers Steve, Yes its a G that look like an S! So it is Gun Shot Wounds The surprising thing for me is that the medical card states GSW, heads and legs severe, so I am assuming that Patrick was shot in the head and legs. The card also states that he had burns on the back of his hands! So he must have been very ill indeed and spent seven months recovering. He's then sent back to France in the MFP, even though he was behind the lines, this must have been still a tough job! Frankly I am amazed by his grit! One of the great finds from the Guards was a copy of a letter from Patrick in 1939 to the Irish Guards, He volunteers to rejoin his regiment at home or abroad for the duration of the war! He states his age is 59 and that he is in perfect health!! l laughed out loud when I read it. Thanks for the tip Roy, I shall seek the book out. All the best, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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