OFFICER O&BLI ADVICE NEEDED

[JDY]

Hi There, I'm new to this forum and was wondering if anyone could help me with some information about a British Infantry Officer. My normal sphere of interest is Victorian Military history which are mainly really tiny conflicts compared to the vastness of WWI and apart from trying to get his Service records from the PRO (which knowing my luck will be among those not to survive) I'm not really sure where to go for more information as their is so much out their!

I'm looking for any information concerning Captain Basil Arthur Anderson MC - 5th Batt. Oxford and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry, who was KIA 31st March 1918.

I'm aware that He originally was in the Ranks of the 23rd London Regiment in 1914 or 1915 and had transfered to the O&BLI by 1916 as He won the MC with this unit at this time as a 2nd Lt but when I don't yet know.

I have a copy of the LG entry for his MC which is dated 14th November 1916 but their is no date for the award and although I know He was with the O&BLI at this time I don't know if it was the 5th Battalion it was in at this time - just that when He was KIA it was in this Battalion. It would be good to find even these details out.

If anyone can help with any information on the above - or point me in the right direction it would be great. Hopefully his Service will turn up but their is a good chance they won't..

JDY

[pwenlock]

Good afternoon JDY

Have you tried contacting the regimetal museum at

The Royal Green Jackets Museum

Peninsula Barracks

Romsey Road

Winchester

SO23 8TS

Telephone Enquiries: 01962-828549

E-mail: museum@royalgreenjackets.co.uk

They hold all of the Ox & Bucks LI archives

Yours aye

OxfordYeoman

[JDY]

Hi OxfordYeoman

No I hadn't tried them - I'll get in touch with them today and see if they can help.

I was quite surprised that their doesn't seem to be an Official History for the Regt as their seems to be with other Regts.

Thanks for the info

JDY

[Paul Nixon]

As he was an officer you do stand a reasonable chance of discovering his service record at Kew (better anyway, than if he was an OR). There is a way of searching basic details on-line but for the life of me I can't seem to find the link this morning.

Paul

[JDY]

Thanks Paul thats encouraging news.

I just managed to download his medal card from the NA website, I tried to find other stuff online but could (might just be me though!).

It did give me a little extra information. It seems He enlisted 14/3/15 as 2077 in 23rd London Regt but his Service number seems to have changed to 700340 while still in this Regt as a L/Cpl (why I don't know).

He was Commissioned 25/7/16 but unfortunately I don't know if this was into the O&BLI and if it was their are no Battalion numbers mentioned or a date for the when the MC was awarded for.

Thanks

JDY

[Paul Nixon]

The number is easy to explain. The 23rd Londons was a Territorial Force formation. When the TF was renumbered in February 1917, new numbers were allocated to the battalions to be issued to the men serving. The block of numbers 700001 to 720000 was allocated to the 23rd London Regt and, as you can see, your man's number falls nicely within that range.

Paul

[JDY]

Hi Paul

Thanks for explaining this to me this is totally new to me.

I suppose this makes it a good chance then He was a pre war Territorial, I had suspected this as his rank for both numbers was L/Cpl.

Saying this why would He have been given the Territorial number 700340 if He had been commissioned in 1916 before the renumbering of TF's?

Thanks

JDY

[barrieduncan]

JDY,

If it was the medal index card you downloaded then it is most likely to be the date he arrived in his theatre of war that is given, as opposed to the date of enlistment.

You may find more information about his commission on the London Gazette website, although I gather this can be quite hard to search with any success.

Good luck,

Barrie

[Paul Nixon]

I suppose this makes it a good chance then He was a pre war Territorial, I had suspected this as his rank for both numbers was L/Cpl.

Saying this why would He have been given the Territorial number 700340 if He had been commissioned in 1916 before the renumbering of TF's?

There is a system for estimating the approximate date when he joined the TF and it's been the subject again of a recent thread on this forum. Go to search and key in the words early service numbers which was a query raised by Davben. You'll find the responses relevant to your search.

I'm not sure on commissioning date and the re-numbering, good point. I could guess but it's probably better that someone who can give you a definitive answer, should answer rather than have me confusing the issue.

Paul

[Stebie9173]

Hi, JDY

Some entries from the London Gazette for you.

London Gazette 14-11-1916

Temp. 2nd Lt. Basil Arthur Anderson, Oxf. & Bucks. L.I.

For conspicuous gallantry in action.

When digging a communication trench the enemy opened fire with a machine-gun on the troops in front and on his own party. He at once attacked with bombers and riflemen, and captured the gun.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

You've got that one....

London Gazette 26-8-1916

War Office,

26th August 1916

REGULAR FORCES.

The undernamed Warrant Officers, Noncommissioned Officers and men to be temp. Second Lts. (on prob.) with effect from the dates shown: —

Oxf. & Bucks. L.I.—Lce.-Corpl. B. A. Anderson, from M.G.C. 31 July 1916.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

London Gazette 10-7-1917

Oxf. & Bucks. L.I.

Temp. 2nd Lt. B. A. Anderson, M.C., to be temp. Lt. 3 May 1917.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

London Gazette 20-9-1917

O&f. & Bucks. L.I.

Temp. Lt. B. A. Anderson, M.C., to be actg. Capt. while comdg. a Co. 29 May 1917 to 9 June 1917.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

London Gazette 4-12-1917

Oxf. & Bucks. L.I.

The undermentioned temp. Lts. to be actg. Capts. (addtl.): —

B. A. Anderson, M.C. 20 July 1917.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

London Gazette 18-12-1917

Oxf. & Bucks. L.I.

Temp. Lt. B. A. Anderson, from actg. Capt. (addtl.), to be actg. Capt. while comdg. a Co.. 26 Sept. 1917.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

London Gazette 12-6-1918

Oxf. & Bucks. L.I.

Temp. Lt. B. A. Anderson, M.C., relinquishes the actg. rank of Capt. (without pay). 8 Feb. 1918 (since killed in action).

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

London Gazette 19-12-1918

Oxf. & Bucks. L.I.

Temp. Lt. B. A. Anderson, M.C., to be temp. Capt. 5 Mar. 1918. (Since killed in action.)

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

There is a good chance that being a company commander at various points, he will be mentioned in the units War Diary. These are stored at the National Archives at Kew. I suppose the 5th Battalion is as good a place to start as any...

The Machine Gun Corps entry in his commission to 2/Kt. is intriguing...

Hope this helps,

Steve.

[JDY]

Hi Barry and Paul

Thanks for the continued posts on this subject.

That would make sense about his Medal index card just giving his arrival in France and I've followed your advice with the London Gazette Website. That was actually my first port of call before coming onto this website and its where I found the entry for his MC but I couldn't find anything else (I tried his initials, his full name etc.) but I tried again after you saying that it can be quite hard - added a couple of full stops between the initials, bigger spaces and another 7 entries came up!

Most of the entries are regarding temp. appointments to Captain or Lt of a (or 'A') Company during 1916 - 18 but one very interesting one seems to have confused things even futher!

LG 26 Aug 1916 has Anderson being appointed Probationary Temp. 2nd Lt from the direct from the rank of L/Cpl on 31st July 1916- but not from the 23rd London but from the MGC! - seems quite a step from L/Cpl to 2nd Lt in one go and from the MGC....

Paul I'll follow your advice and check out the other thread and see if it helps

Thanks again

JDY

There is a system for estimating the approximate date when he joined the TF and it's been the subject again of a recent thread on this forum. Go to search and key in the words early service numbers which was a query raised by Davben. You'll find the responses relevant to your search.

I'm not sure on commissioning date and the re-numbering, good point. I could guess but it's probably better that someone who can give you a definitive answer, should answer rather than have me confusing the issue.

Paul

[JDY]

Hi Steve

Thanks alot for looking out all the information for me, I think I must have been typing out my last post while you were posting yours as they are both saying similar things.

Really is appreciated you going to so much trouble to get everything down.

Thanks

JDY

Hi, JDY

Some entries from the London Gazette for you.

London Gazette 14-11-1916

Temp. 2nd Lt. Basil Arthur Anderson, Oxf. & Bucks. L.I.

For conspicuous gallantry in action.

When digging a communication trench the enemy opened fire with a machine-gun on the troops in front and on his own party. He at once attacked with bombers and riflemen, and captured the gun.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

You've got that one....

London Gazette 26-8-1916

War Office,

26th August 1916

REGULAR FORCES.

The undernamed Warrant Officers, Noncommissioned Officers and men to be temp. Second Lts. (on prob.) with effect from the dates shown: —

Oxf. & Bucks. L.I.—Lce.-Corpl. B. A. Anderson, from M.G.C. 31 July 1916.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

London Gazette 10-7-1917

Oxf. & Bucks. L.I.

Temp. 2nd Lt. B. A. Anderson, M.C., to be temp. Lt. 3 May 1917.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

London Gazette 20-9-1917

O&f. & Bucks. L.I.

Temp. Lt. B. A. Anderson, M.C., to be actg. Capt. while comdg. a Co. 29 May 1917 to 9 June 1917.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

London Gazette 4-12-1917

Oxf. & Bucks. L.I.

The undermentioned temp. Lts. to be actg. Capts. (addtl.): —

B. A. Anderson, M.C. 20 July 1917.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

London Gazette 18-12-1917

Oxf. & Bucks. L.I.

Temp. Lt. B. A. Anderson, from actg. Capt. (addtl.), to be actg. Capt. while comdg. a Co.. 26 Sept. 1917.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

London Gazette 12-6-1918

Oxf. & Bucks. L.I.

Temp. Lt. B. A. Anderson, M.C., relinquishes the actg. rank of Capt. (without pay). 8 Feb. 1918 (since killed in action).

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

London Gazette 19-12-1918

Oxf. & Bucks. L.I.

Temp. Lt. B. A. Anderson, M.C., to be temp. Capt. 5 Mar. 1918. (Since killed in action.)

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

Hope this helps,

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

No problem, JDY.

Some interesting stuff there to get your teeth into.

The MGC one intrigued me too!

Might be a red herring, I supposed but the timing is about right and it is unlikely (though not impossible) that there was another B. A. Anderson in the Ox & Bucks getting promoted at the time.

Steve.

[JDY]

Hi Steve

Yes this is becoming more and more interesting and the MGC/promotion information has really made me wonder.

I suppose its not inpossible that their was another B.A Anderson but that must be a very small chance indeed.

Thanks

JDY

No problem, JDY.

Some interesting stuff there to get your teeth into.

The MGC one intrigued me too!

Might be a red herring, I supposed but the timing is about right and it is unlikely (though not impossible) that there was another B. A. Anderson in the Ox & Bucks getting promoted at the time.

Steve.

[Mike Cross]

CWGC and ODGW give his date of death as March 21st 1918, the beginning of the German offensive. Other OBLI Battalions were caught up in this and the 5th and 2/4th particularly suffered enormous casualities, especially in the area around St Quentin and Fayet. They are remembered locally on the Fayet water tank and a photo of the inscription follows. I have a brief memoir written by a 5th Battalion private who was fortunately on detail that day, and he says: '...we lost most of our officers and our soldiers too. Our ranks were very thin indeed'. Some names are given but not 21-year-old Capt Anderson. The 5th effectively ceased to exist at the end of the battle.

[JDY]

Hi Mike

Thanks for information about the battalion in March 1918 and especially for mentioning Capt Anderson's age - this I didn't know before!

I'll look into what was happening at St Quentin and Fayet in March 1918 as it should help me understand what the Battalions movements were.

Does anyone know if their is a Regimental or better still a battalion history available in print?

Thanks

JDY

CWGC and ODGW give his date of death as March 21st 1918, the beginning of the German offensive. Other OBLI Battalions were caught up in this and the 5th and 2/4th particularly suffered enormous casualities, especially in the area around St Quentin and Fayet. They are remembered locally on the Fayet water tank and a photo of the inscription follows. I have a brief memoir written by a 5th Battalion private who was fortunately on detail that day, and he says: '...we lost most of our officers and our soldiers too. Our ranks were very thin indeed'. Some names are given but not 21-year-old Capt Anderson. The 5th effectively ceased to exist at the end of the battle.