sherwood forester (nottingham and Derbyshire)

[Guest dilmo]

Hi all,

I am new to this site and would be greatful to hear from anyone who knows why a soldier would change regiment.

My last posting of this was a day ago and it had 26 reads but unfortunately for me..no replies.

Please help this sole who is trying to build a picture of her great grandfather who was formaly

17743, LEICESTERSHIRE REGT.

died in eygpt 28974 Private 1st Garrison Battalion. Sherwood Foresters (Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment)

any information would be great..

thank you.. thank you for reading my post

Regards..

[jim_davies]

Hi,

There would be any number of reasons why a soldier might change regiments. As the war progressed men were transferred to and from different units as the need arose.

I suspect that the soldier in question transferred from the Leics to the Sherwood Foresters as a result of ill health or wounds, as the garrison battalions don't appear to been used for front line service.

From his Leics number I would suspect he joined the Leics sometime around Mar/Apri 1915, but hopefully someone else could give you a more exact date.

Good luck,

Jim

[Andrew Hesketh]

Dilmo,

Sorry, I must have missed your original post. It's not often a Sherwood Forester thread gets missed by the several SF enthusiasts on this forum!

This would be:

BECK, George, b. Loughborough, Leicestershire, e. Leicester, 28974, PRIVATE, Died, Egypt, 25/06/18, FORMERLY 17743, LEICESTERSHIRE REGT., Sherwood Foresters (Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment), 1st Garrison Battalion.

To respond to your question.

I agree pretty much with Jim. Transfer between regiments, whilst not the norm, is not unusual and can be for a number of reasons. A common reason is that following a wounding a soldier might be snaffled up by whichever units were needing reinforcements.

Jim's suspicion of a March / April 1915 enlistment date may be interesting. This is pure speculation, but....the 1st Garrison Battalion was raised in Lichfield in July 1915 and had a lot of Staffs and Leicestershire men in it as well as the usual Notts & Derby suspects. Could be that he initially enlisted into the Leicesters but got quickly diverted when the 1st Garrison mob began preparing for their move to Egypt later in the year. If this speculation holds any water then the chances are that a small group would have been diverted rather than just your man alone. Any Leicester's 'fans' have any clues?

I suppose the only way to know the reason for sure is to see if his service records survive at the National Archives. They may contain a clue.

For your interest, a list of all the men of the 1st Garrison Battalion who died is on my website - see link in signature below.

[Guest dilmo]

Dear Jim and Andrew,

Thankyou so much for your replies, been busy only just had chance to return today.. and sorry this may be a bit long!

Well, what you both said is very interesting..the inlisting date is more so as that would coincide with my Aunt's date of birth, May 1915.

My grandfather said his father 'joined up' when he was about 10yrs..he was born 1905.

The only thing now is to prove (or as best I can that it is my ggrandfather) I will be writting to the National Archives to seek this futher. I have found his medal card but do not want to down load it yet as I am undsure to this proving to be my ggrandfather.

Can I please ask another question? When a man inlisted did he have to show any papers..proof of name or give next-of-kin?

I know some men did not give thier correct age so this makes me think they did not have to give birth certificate for instance..sorry I'm nieve to all of this...

Why I ask is because, my ggrandfather birth certificate is George William and I may be barking up the wrong tree..I will persue as this is all so intreaging..

I have visited the sites you recommended and put them to my favourites..(he was 1 of 12 that had been transfered according to your list. thanks for that) I have also visited CWGC and found his resting place..which is where I thought the extra info would have been placed such a wife..as he did leave a beloved one behind and 4 children.

Thank you again for all your time and help I do really appreciate this..

Sorry this is so long!

If there is any thing else you think off I would be greatful for that to..

Kindest regards

[Andrew Hesketh]

Can I please ask another question? When a man inlisted did he have to show any papers..proof of name or give next-of-kin? I know some men did not give thier correct age so this makes me think they did not have to give birth certificate for instance..sorry I'm nieve to all of this...

Firstly, never worry about naivety on this forum. One of its greatest strengths is that regular members do not view any question as silly. We have all been through the learning curve of knowing nothing to wherever we are now.

I believe that your assumption is correct regarding birth certificates etc,. The army took people at their word which is one of the reasons so many boys got away with underage enlistment (often with the collusion of the recruiting Sergeant). In any case, prior to the introduction of conscription in 1916 the army did not have the means, inclination or time to check the veracity of enlisters statements. Also I recall reading in 'Blindfold and Alone', a book about military executions (about which their is a thread currently running in the Book Reviews section), that even the production of proof of age made no difference to court martials if an underage solder had misbehaved - the age given at the time of enlistment and on the form was what they regarded as true.

As regards MIC's, this must be him: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=1

The fact that it does not mention the Leicestershire's is not surprising as MIC's would not record regiments served in if the man did not serve overseas whilst in that regiment. This, I think, gives further weight to the theory that he was transferred to the Sherwoods shortly after enlistment and therefore probably not by personal choice.

Another little point for your collection of knowledge: the 1st Garrison Battalion suffered a fairly serious mutiny at Kantara in Egypt in 1917. A large number of men were given 2 years hard labour as a result. George Beck was not amongst those charged. I'm still trying to find out what the mutiny was all about.

Hope this helps. Keep us in touch with developments - and keep asking questions!

[Guest dilmo]

Hi there,

Thanks for your reply and interesting response...

Well! Where do I start with my questions?

It's looking a little more positive I feel.. It could be my ggrandfather? I do hope so!

I looked at the sites you sugested..too much to take in all at once...Am I assuming 'The Derbyshire Lads at War" is your site..or have I miss read?

Anyway....

"64 men were charged and all were given punishments of two years hard labour." I did read and wondered about that..I will await the update? I digress again..sorry!

You sound so positive that George was not one of the men doing 2 yrs hard labour...although his name is in the list...was the group split then..were certain men selected? That sounds awful!!

Have I understood you right that whilst George was with the Leicester's he did not surve overseas?

I will download the 'Medal Card' might as well..I have the death certificate (what the heck!) I'm getting the feel of his life...that was really kind of you..thanks..I'll let you know?

I know these cards can be a little tricky to read.. I found and saved a page of abrvs..think I may need it..

If you're interested Death cert read : Died of Wounds (Accidental)

Thanks so much for your help..I appreciate it very much

Regards

Mandy

[Andrew Hesketh]

Hi again Mandy,

"It could be my ggrandfather?" - I think so.

"Am I assuming 'The Derbyshire Lads at War' is your site" - Yep.

"You sound so positive that George was not one of the men doing 2 yrs hard labour...although his name is in the list...was the group split then..were certain men selected?" - I think we may be a little at cross purposes here. The list on the site is of members of the battalion who died in the war; nothing to do with the mutiny. However I have a book by Julian Putkowski about British Army Mutineers which lists them, and his name is not amongst the 64 at Kantara - that's why I sound positive.

"Have I understood you right that whilst George was with the Leicester's he did not surve overseas?" - the fact that the MIC makes no reference to this regiment is proof that he did not serve overseas with them.

"I have the death certificate...Died of Wounds (Accidental) - What a terrible shame.

I hope this helps clear up a few questions.

Keep 'em coming - it keeps me off the streets.

[Guest dilmo]

Thank you so much for your help.

Sorry about the mix up! you have made it clear.. I do feel rather silly..

Your site is very interesting, I have added it to my favs.. and will keep returning.

You must have read my 'update' then? The question about the 15 star medal I'm asuming it is the 1914/15.

I am building an interesting life of my grandfather as a soldier, he feels closer with each step...and yes, it is a terrible shame..so young.

Thanks again for all your help.

I'm sure there will be more ancesters! Walter Mappin may be an interesting person..from Shefield..still thats for another day

Kindest regards

Mandy

[Andrew Hesketh]

I do feel rather silly...

That just about sums up my natural state!