Bob Coulson Posted 11 December , 2002 Share Posted 11 December , 2002 First heard reference to the Moated Grange just outside Ypres recently. Have located the position of it but just wondering if anyone has any info on its part in the battles, book references etc. Also would anyone know of any photos before/during the war.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 12 December , 2002 Share Posted 12 December , 2002 1915 - The Death of Innocence by Lyn Macdonald pages 87, 103-5 and 116 refer to Moated Grange. Battlefields of the First World War - A Traveller's Guide by Tonie & Valmai Holt - Pages 30-37 covering the Battle of Neuve Chapelle refers with good map showing location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 12 December , 2002 Share Posted 12 December , 2002 NB this name is taken from Tennyson's poem 'Mariana'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 12 December , 2002 Share Posted 12 December , 2002 There is, or was, a Moated Grange at Neuve Chappelle, but it seems to be stretching 'near Ypres' a little far. Neuve Chappelle must be nearly 20 miles from Ypres. Were there two Neuve Chappelles, one at Ypres and one at NC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 12 December , 2002 Share Posted 12 December , 2002 I know of a "Moat Farm" near Ypres, not far from Hollebeke, but it probably isn't the same place. Bob, you have located your "Moated Grange" - where is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 12 December , 2002 Share Posted 12 December , 2002 Hello, I found it! It is a moated Farm between the Zillebeke Lake and the former railway track Ypres-Roulers (now the Zuiderring), in grid I 16, about 800 meters southsouthwest of Hellfire Corner. Greetings, Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 12 December , 2002 Share Posted 12 December , 2002 NB this name is taken from Tennyson's poem 'Mariana'. This could well have been the origin of the name, but there's an earlier reference - Tennyson's inspiration for "Mariana in the Moated Grange" was Shakespeare's "Measure for Measure" Act 4 Scene 1, where Mariana lives at "The Moated Grange at St. Luke's." So whoever gave the place its wartime name was either a Tennyson fan or a Shakespeare fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_Fielding Posted 12 December , 2002 Share Posted 12 December , 2002 Of course...ye Gods, and me an English teacher 'n' all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 12 December , 2002 Share Posted 12 December , 2002 Well friends I know nothing about this topic but am finding out if my attempt to create a signature is successful! Tom, I am surprised you have not commented on my last post on the grave at Red Farm. Hope to see many forum folk at the AGM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 12 December , 2002 Author Share Posted 12 December , 2002 To clear up any confusion I was not referring to Neuve Chappelle but to the Moated Grange to the south west of Hellfire Corner as Jan has posted. Even with my limited knowledge I would not put Neuve Chappelle down as being near Ypres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 13 December , 2002 Share Posted 13 December , 2002 As several people on this thread have suggested, there were quite a few "moated granges", but the famous one to soldiers who fought in the Salient was the one near Zillebeke identified by Jan. The remains of it were certainly still there in the 1980s/90s, and it can be reached by following a track near Perth (China Wall) Cemetery. Remains of gun positions were also still in evidence. It is mentioned in quite a few memoirs - particularly of gunner officers at it was used largely by the RFA/RGA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 27 August , 2004 Share Posted 27 August , 2004 Were there two Neuve Chappelles, one at Ypres and one at NC? Perhaps they are being 'associated' because the Second Ypres came only weeks after Neuve Chappell??? Just a thought... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 27 August , 2004 Share Posted 27 August , 2004 The 1/1st Cambridgeshire Regiment won their first MM @ Moated Grange in early April 1916,Private Frank Drage,crept out under heavy Machine Gun & Rifle Fire to Rescue & dress the wounds of Lance Corporal Eggett,following a Reconnaissance Party,Frank Drages MM Citation made it to the Brigade & Divisional War Diaries! =###===###===###===###===###===###===###===###===###= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 27 August , 2004 Share Posted 27 August , 2004 I am sure that I have heard Shelltrap/Mousetrap Farm referred to as a moated grange. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 27 August , 2004 Share Posted 27 August , 2004 For info. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 27 August , 2004 Share Posted 27 August , 2004 Andy Mousetrap Farm was a moated farm. There is an account of a brave rescue of a wounded man where the rescuer took the man into the moat for cover. Charlotte has told me that Varlet Farm also had a moat. I have seen Mousetrap farm on a wartime aerial shot, by which time it had been almost destroyed. I would dearly love to see a picture, photo or painting, of any prewar 'moated' farm or grange, as I can't imagine what the moat would look like in size/depth etc. Did larger manor houses or farms in Belgium usually have moats? Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 27 August , 2004 Share Posted 27 August , 2004 Nearest I have is the moat at Bedford Road Cemetery. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 27 August , 2004 Share Posted 27 August , 2004 Another angle which gives an idea of depth and width. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 27 August , 2004 Share Posted 27 August , 2004 Malcolm Excellent. Thank you so much. These pictures give a very good idea of the probable width/ depth in proportion to the property. We can see a bridge or reinforced arch over the road which would probably have been like the bridge at the entrance to a farm house or grange. I wonder if the moats just filled with rain water and so were sometimes empty. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 27 August , 2004 Share Posted 27 August , 2004 Kate, Mouse Trap Farm moat from a pre-war map (approx. 1911). Diameters approx. 210 meters and 140 meters. (Sorry if I have already sent you this map some other time. I don't remember.) Many farms in the area were moated prewar. On a map of approx. mid 19th century I counted 34 for my own village Boezinge. But Mouse Trap Farm (St.-Jan, not Boezinge as you probably know) certainly was larger than average. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 27 August , 2004 Share Posted 27 August , 2004 Thanks for the pics Malcolm, they really do give a good idea of scale and it has surprised me how substantial the moated area appears. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyford Posted 27 August , 2004 Share Posted 27 August , 2004 Yes Aurel. Thank you very much. You did send me that excellent map. When you look at the farm buildings on your map in comparison to the size of the moat it is a very impressive affair and I would love to have seen it. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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