green_acorn Posted 11 February , 2006 Share Posted 11 February , 2006 The Sydney Morning Herald have created a website for the 90th anniversay of Gallipoli, obviously Australian focused, but includes Ashmead Bartlett's fascinating footage. RND armoured cars and all! http://smh.com.au/gallipoli/video/video.htm The website also has much elses of interest on CEW Bean and so on, cheers, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 11 February , 2006 Share Posted 11 February , 2006 Film is great , Chris - so are the interviews with the vets. Thanks for that, Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 11 February , 2006 Share Posted 11 February , 2006 Chris thank you. A great site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutrino Posted 11 February , 2006 Share Posted 11 February , 2006 great site. great stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 11 February , 2006 Share Posted 11 February , 2006 Great find. Thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 11 February , 2006 Share Posted 11 February , 2006 Chris, Thanks for the link. The old boys still didn't want to tell it all, did they? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted 11 February , 2006 Share Posted 11 February , 2006 No, they didn't, did they? Although what they had to say was interesting. Marina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krithia Posted 12 February , 2006 Share Posted 12 February , 2006 Its great to see the film on the net, wonder if you can get it on DVD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Galatea Posted 12 February , 2006 Share Posted 12 February , 2006 Excellent footage. I wonder if the RNDs armoured cars were those that served in the defence of Antwerp? Davie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krithia Posted 12 February , 2006 Share Posted 12 February , 2006 Excellent footage. I wonder if the RNDs armoured cars were those that served in the defence of Antwerp? Davie. The RND armoured cars that were at Gallipoli were Rolls Royce's from 3 Squadron, so I don't think they were at Antwerp in 1914. After the failed attacked during the Third Battle of Krithia (June 1915) the cars were shipped off to Egypt. Most of the RNACD crews remained at Gallipoli and fought on to the end of the campaign in machine-gun detachments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob lembke Posted 13 February , 2006 Share Posted 13 February , 2006 Very interesting. The comments of Len Hall were a bit more cryptic than "admiration", as they were advertised. My father was at ANZAC Cove, fighting as a volunteer German Pionier with the Turkish Army, and he felt that the ordinary Turkish soldier had a better spirit than any soldiers than he encountered in the whole war, except the very best German storm units, which he fought in and with. He really loved them, and he was pleased as punch to be able to help to run some guns to them in the early 1920's when the Greeks were invading. Let me also put in a plug for the Askeri Mueze, the Turkish Military Museum in Istanbul, which I have visited every time I get to Istanbul. Amazing collection, started in 1457, I believe. It is great to observe how ANZACs seemed to have quickly established a bond with the Turkish people. I first heard Kemal Attaturk's wonderful poem to the ANZAC people and to the memory of their sons while gliding by Gallipoli at dawn, and I simply cried. But I have that Hunnish quality, being a sentimental old fool. Bob Lembke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gumbirsingpun Posted 13 February , 2006 Share Posted 13 February , 2006 one o the best i have ever seen so far thank you regards tuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Morgan Posted 22 February , 2006 Share Posted 22 February , 2006 simply amazing. Thanks, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockney tone Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Chris, really interesting, thank you for sharing it, regards, Scottie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Whippy Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 CAN ANYONE SHED ANY LIGHT ON PINNING DOWN WHERE THE TRENCHES AND SNIPERSCOPE FOOTAGE WAS TAKEN? BILLY SING WAS A TOP QUALITY SNIPER OPERATING NEAR CHATHAM POST SO JUST WONDERED IF THIS WAS SIMILAR TO HIS OUTPOST ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 24 February , 2006 Share Posted 24 February , 2006 Julian G'day mate "CAN ANYONE SHED ANY LIGHT ON PINNING DOWN WHERE THE TRENCHES AND SNIPERSCOPE FOOTAGE WAS TAKEN?" I AM NOT SURE BUT THE SHOULDER PATCH LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE FROM THE 20th Infantry Battalion (New South Wales) [5th Infantry Brigade] although the fellow next to him has a lemon squeezer - that gives the impression that he might be a kiwi but checking the shoulder patches, none matched up so we can assume he has reshaped his felt hat into looking like one. This pic was taken in August during the battle of Suvla. To find out exactly where the footage was taken, you will need the war diary of the 20th. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 25 February , 2006 Share Posted 25 February , 2006 Mates A question was raised as to my methodology of coming to my answer. Quite simple - the powers of observation are the pre-requisite. If you look at the shoulder patch, you will see it is in the form of a diamond, light at the top and dark at the bottom. Of course, we cannot see colour so the next part is guesswork. The only unit on Gallipoli at any time with a similar shoulder patch when Ashmeed Bartlet made his film was the Australian 20th Infantry Battalion. The fellow wearing what looks to be a lemon squeezer, on closer inspection shows that the hat was not designed that way. In this pic of the 9th ALHR engaged in the same activity, you can see how the felt hat has been reshaped with the squishing in at the top. A vertical line on the hat gives away the attempted lemon squeezer style. Now here is where modern technology comes in. As luck would have it, I have a copy of this very piece of film - copied from the tape held by the AWM. After digitising it, there is no problem getting the footage and blowing it up to examine the parts. Since my knowledge of the 20th is very slender indeed I will leave it up to someone else to work out exactly where they were when this pic was taken. Julian's question piqued my interest since I have seen this footage many times but never asked that question. It was a good question which required a little bit of work to get the answer. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beckett Posted 25 February , 2006 Share Posted 25 February , 2006 Bill, contrary to some-one elses opinion, a great piece of modern detective work. What a bonzer of a thread Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Posted 25 February , 2006 Share Posted 25 February , 2006 From 26 August, until its withdrawal from the peninsula on 20 December, the 20th Battalion was responsible for the defence of Russell's Top. For more on Billy Sing go to http://www.lighthorse.org.au/Pershist/billsing.htm Cheers Kim Picture courtesey of the Australian Light Horse Site from above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 25 February , 2006 Share Posted 25 February , 2006 Mates Someone made this comment in his post: Billy Sing's observer was a Trooper called Ion L Idriess Here is the relevant paragraph from The Desert Column written by Idriess: "I "spotted" awhile for Billy Sing this morning. Billy and I came down on the same boat from Townsville. He is a little chap, very dark, with a jet-black moustache and a goatee beard. A picaresque looking mankiller. He is the crack sniper of the Anzacs. His tiny possy is perched in a commanding position high up in the trench. He does nothing but sniping. He has already shot one hundred and five Turks. He has a splendid telescope and through it I peered across at a distant loophole, just in time to see a Turkish face framed behind the loophole. He disappeared. A few minutes later, and part of his face appeared. That vanished. Five minutes later he cautiously gazed from a side angle through the loophole. I could see his moustache, his eyebrows, and part of his forehead. He disappeared. Then he showed all his face and disappeared. He didn't reappear again, though I kept turning the telescope back to his possy. At last, farther along the line, I spotted a man's face framed enquiringly in a loophole. He stayed there. Billy fired. The Turk vanished instantly, but with the telescope I could partly see the motion of men inside the trench picking him up. So it was one more man to Billy’s tally." Here are the pages out of the contemporaneous diary of Idriess for that very same day: Earlier I made the error of thinking that Idriess hadn't mentioned Sing but the nature of his diary makes it easy to miss things as it is all over the shop. Anyway, that is my mea culpa and when I am wrong, I am only too happy to correct myself. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 25 February , 2006 Share Posted 25 February , 2006 Kim G'day matess From 26 August, until its withdrawal from the peninsula on 20 December, the 20th Battalion was responsible for the defence of Russell's Top. Thanks for that. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Whippy Posted 25 February , 2006 Share Posted 25 February , 2006 This is turning into a thread in itself.Not only on Aussie unit identification but on snipers too. As a real proud pom, its nice to know you Aussie guys are really on the ball with ANZAC details.Thanks for the details of the 20th Battalion, as has been said good detective work. I am off to Gallipoli soon to do a battlefield recce for a tour later in the year, it would be good to stand on the spot of the film footage and show it on a DVD player, what do you think ?? The picture of Billy Sing above is the only one I Know of, and as an ex-sniper myself I have great admiration for him. Such a shame he died in obscurity. JW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Posted 25 February , 2006 Share Posted 25 February , 2006 Julian, If you want more detail on Anzac, the AWM is a good place to look. http://www.awm.gov.au Cheers Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Whippy Posted 25 February , 2006 Share Posted 25 February , 2006 Cheers Ozzie, I am a frequent visitor to the AWM site. Its a good site, just like the Canadian ones too. I think the relevant British authorities would do well to follow suit in the same way. They are lagging behind somewhat. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bill Woerlee Posted 27 February , 2006 Share Posted 27 February , 2006 Julian G'day mate I think the relevant British authorities would do well to follow suit in the same way. They are lagging behind somewhat. This is one of my pet hobby horses mate. I am shocked at the poor state of New Zealand record keeping - there is no centralised resource that allows people to follow the public history of the soldiers who served in the Great War. Same for Britain. Reality is that these are political issues driven by the ordinary voters. The average John and Doreen really couldn't give a toss about this and thus the politicians don't see any votes in spending money in this area. If it was a popular idea, money would be found for it quick smart. Australia was fortunate - or unfortunate - that the enlistments took in over one third of the eligible male population which sent a shock throughout the community, especially when the butcher's bill was paid. So there was an impetus for understanding this disaster that had befallen the community. In comes CEW Bean, an extraordinary scholar and administator [who lived just down the road from me although never contemporaneously] with a super human energy, harnessed this mood and set up the framework for the AWM which now is so entrenched within the Australian community that it would be a brave minister who suggested cutting any of the funding. This being so, one would have thought New Zealand would have gone through the same process but they adopted more of a "let's forget about it and put it behind us" attitude. That has led to a dearth of public information. Britain's absence of information is surprising. As one of the 7, there should be the resources to create a similar style centre. The Canadians began their work on the cheap employing volunteers to set up the data for the internet site. Most of them came through employment creation programs and did a highly credible job. Judging by the results it would appear as though Ottowa now has ponied up with sufficient funds to expand the project. So if you want something similar for Britain, you need to get some popular press and generate some political will. Then and only then will the politicians start to do something. Until then, you can only weep. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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