Somme or Ypres?

[paul guthrie]

Some would vote for neither, there are more actual remnants of the war near Verdun, in the Meuse Argonne and the Vosges but most of you are British and I will limit the question to these, I have not heard any of my friends say they prefer the Arras or Aisne or 1914 retreat battlefields to these two.

If the question was decided on modern town Ieper wins by a mile, lots of great restaurants, good plcaes to stay, Menin Gate and Last Post and you are in the battlefield as soon as you get there.

Albert is not much though there is good food at Royal Picardie on the outskirts and downtown at hotel, name of which escapes me. . Peronne has Ramparts Hotel which has great food and a hotel where i have stayed twice just up the hill from the Historial near main square, good place good food too. Arras is lovely with lots to do but too far away to be ideal.

When we come to the real reason to be there, battlefields, I can better visaulize things on the Somme. The topography is of course the same as then, also at Ieper, but it has been developed so much that it makes things harder for me. Somme still has clear views. At Ieper, things were fought over for the whole war which is good for study but bad also in the sense that Somme is more straightforward. Understanding the Somme at the least requires knowldege of the French 1916 sector as well as the offensives of 1918.

My vote and it's a tough one is the Somme.

[Tim Birch]

I vote for the Somme for many of the same reasons as Paul. It is generally a far less confusing battlefield to study, and as he says it is mainly unspoilt by development. I find the heavy traffic on the roads around Ypres unpleasant.

The Somme is also, IMHO, a very attractive area so far as the countryside is concerned. This maybe because it is not unalike the chalk uplands of England - Salisbury Plain, or the South Downs.

This similarity with Home initially brought comfort to the British soldiers, and was preferable to the mining squalor of Artois or mud of Flanders. Little did those early arrivals of the BEF realise what a hell hole it was to become with its sticking white chalky mud and terrible cost in lives.

Another factor is the weather. Maybe I have just been plain unlucky, but every time I go to Ypres it seems to rain, whereas with one or two exceptions I have always enjoyed good, and sometimes brilliant weather on the Somme.

Tim

[Jonathan Saunders]

The Somme. mainly for the reasons that Tim outlines although I have not always been as lucky as him with the weather. A lack of places to stay off the cuff and the fact Albert closes down at 9pm are a problem, but all the same the Somme remains the most compelling battlefield for me personally.

Whilst a very different kind of battlefield I would also recommend a trip to Scapa Flow but mainly for the scenery. However several buoys place the wrecks of the VANGUARD and the ROYAL OAK and of course there was the scuttling of the German Fleet, a wonderful Naval cemetery and the small but interesting museum at Lyness. It is a long way "up" but well worth the visit even if just the once.

[CROONAERT]

It's gotta be Ieper every time for me! For a start, the beer's better! .

I don't know why, but personally, I've never managed to find much attraction to the Somme (either the region or the battle).Maybe it's the "overkill" on Somme documentaries and publications that I read and watched in my youth.I never found this with the Salient battles. Also, I think there is more "symbolism" to be found at Ypres, with me finding it represents the whole consept of "britishness".For the Germans, too there is this symbolism (what with the name "langemark", etc.).

With major events happening every year of the war, I think that Ypres could also represent the "war within a war". Hard to describe my love affair for Ieper, but I always feel "at home" when I'm there ,a feeling I've never got on the Somme. I don't know why, but I can never feel more than a passing interest in the Somme, yet I'm obsessed with Ypres (and Arnhem/Oosterbeek,the Champaqne region, the Hurtgenwald, The Luxembourg Ardennes and the battlefields around Metz!). I try and visit one or all of these sites several times a year, yet I'll only find myself on the Somme maybe once every 5 or 6 years.

Dave.

[182 CEF]

I have never been to either, perhaps some day I will make the trip. If I do I will post here and perhaps one of the Pals may be in the areas I would like to visit, to help as a guide. I could do the same for anyone going to US Civil War battlefields ( I live in Canada but if you wanted it hit PA, or Va sites I know people everywhere)

I would like to see Where the Newfoundlanders fought on the Somme, and of course Vimy. I understand that both sites are among the best presearved (?) to this day. If anyone was to go to either of these sites, I would be willing to buy any maps or any other "park guides that are offered by the parks.

Thank you

Dean Owen

Whitby Ontario Canada

[Mark Hone]

I would have to vote for Ieper, even though my first battlefield tours were to the Somme. Ieper with its cafes, beer, chocolates, bicycles as well as the proximity of the battlefields has become a second home in the last 10 years. I must go back to the Somme more....

[peterd]

I may be in a minority, but I prefer Arras. It allows one to visit the memorials around the Town and the caves beneath, and also, of particular interesst for Pals in Canada, Vimy is within easy reach. Cambrai is not too far away, and the Somme area is reachable for a day trip. Also, the people are friendly but it is not too touristy so I get the opportunity to practice my limited French

Regards

Peter

[Greenwoodman]

Out of the two, I prefer Ypres. But given unlimited choice I would go for the Asiago in Italy, followed by Gallipoli. For purely personal reasons, as these were my grandad's battlegrounds.

[ianw]

I too love Arras but always regard it as an adjunct of the Somme - probably unfairly. I can't split the 2 main "contenders". I love both but have a special feeling for Ypres having a Great Uncle on the Menin Gate. Yes, I do definitely feel at home there. The food and beer is also a great attraction !

As for the Somme, all Paul says about the topography and the open views is true and always drives away the claustrophobia of Flanders - and oh those skylarks. I can never hear them over the Somme without a lump appearing in my throat. A great place to take a walk through British history.

[Guest Hill 60]

I have only been to the battlefields twice, the first was the Somme and the second was Ypres, so I can only talk with limited knowledge.

The Somme, being my first time on a WWI battlefield, was amazing. I can't express my feelings whilst walking around places I had only read about before, such as Delville Wood. To stand at Lochnagar Crater on Saturday 1st July and to look out towards the spot where Pte Nugent's remains had been found was moving beyond words.

Our group stayed in Arras, after our hotel in Albert caught fire! For me, Arras has to be in the top 10 list of boring towns. Albert was interesting, but maybe I didn't spend enough hours there for it to grow on me.

My second tour took me to Ypres, and new emotions. Edward Swain, one of two of my great-uncles to be killed in the war, was killed up at Sanctuary Wood. So I have a closer attachment to Ypres, with its close proximity to Sanctuary Wood and to Ted's grave.

Ypres was a marvellous place to walk around, and I'm really looking forward to spending some more time there in November. I fell in love with the town whilst walking from the Ariane Hotel to the Menin Gate on our first night there.

Then there are the people.

The French on the Somme were friendly and I couldn't fault them at all.

The Belgians, on the other hand, were embarrassingly friendly! They, seemingly, couldn't do enough for you.

So, although I loved the Somme, my favourite place has to be Ypres.

[Will O'Brien]

It would have to be Ypres for me. It was the first WWI area I ever visited & that first visit to the Menin Gate will always be something to remember. I also honeymooned in Flanders which makes the area special for me.

Will

[Bob Coulson]

Got to be Ieper for me.

Bob.

[Peter Beckett]

Paul,

I have only visited parts of the Salient and parts of the Somme but as I live 12000 miles away and a "visitors pass" from the Chief Commander is not likely to be possible in the foreseeable future, then I vote for both.

Peter

[egbert]

I live only 7500 miles away, but visit both places each year. Coming back from both yesterday, I don#t know what to say. Somme (Gommecourt - Guillemont ) is my favorite; but what shall I say to Charlotte from Varlet Farm? Ypres is special because of the Vlaams people like Charlotte and Jan (AOK 4); I so much enjoyed their hospitality that it is a must to come back to Ypres AND Somme equally!!!

[paul guthrie]

Ieper has Jacky too, a major plus. And I agree Asiago and Gallipoli are great visits.

[Muerrisch]

Ypres gets my vote. I find the people of the salient can not do too much for you, whereas, on the Somme, I have sometimes been made to feel unwelcome, both in hotels, restaurants, at Arras [where I was robbed] and indeed in some of the sites. In case you wondered, I have decent O Level schoolboy French and try to use it in France.

Setting the people aside [and one cannot, really], the Somme countryside is much more attractive, but the sheer magic of Ypres and its little companion Poperinghe, with TocH, and the greater accessibility make for a reinforced vote.

Finally, the Amfora in Poperinghe is well up my favourite hotels list, world wide, a marvellous combination of quality with reasonable pricing and a host and hostess [ex beauty queen of Pop] who simply can not do enough for their guests.

And I hold no shares. Truth to tell, I don't even get a discount!

None of the above has any effect on our habit: one year Somme, one year salient, one year Somme, one year salient .........

[Guest Andy Kellett]

The Somme just about gets my vote probably because, as other people have mentioned, I prefer the countryside and lack of traffic. Unlike some other people on this thread I've never had any problem with the people on the Somme but on one occassion I was made to feel very unwelcome in a bar just up from the Ploegstreert Memorial. That's probably just luck of the drew though.

Like some other people I have tended to treat Arras as an add on to the Somme and Neuve Chapelle and Loos as add ons to a visit to the Salient. Around Neuve Chapelle and Aubers the locals are very friendly and just appear bemused by my presence.

[Mark Hone]

On the whole I have found both Belgians and French friendly. Some Belgians, like a lot of British people, can be very reserved and seemingly frosty until you get to know them. I have had a few funny experiences over the years. I was once unprovokedly attacked in the street in Ieper by a drunk who turned out to be a CWGC gardener!

[uncle bill]

I too like Arras. The architecture is delightful and it makes a nice base to visit so many places. The battlefields towards Cambrai are within easy reach and so is one of my favourite cemeteries at Bourlon Wood. Vimy is only minutes away to the north and the French sector and huge cemetery at La Lorette is a must see. The museum at La Targette is in my opinion the best there is, if you are into the hardware and uniforms of the Great War. The Somme is only a short drive away and like many I find this the most evocative and moving of the old battlefields. Albert is a rather drab place and I always find I crave for civilisation and a break from the war when evening comes, hence Arras as a base.

[Charles Fair]

I agree its a tough call between Belgian beer, food and the Last Post ceremony vs to my mind the nicer walking on the Somme.

May I submit a nomination for the Aisne/Chemin des Dames? Unfortunately too few Brits seem to manage to drag themselves away from the 'big two' to get down there, but those who do are well rewarded. Walks and views along the C des D beat anything further north. Also the history of the Old Contemptibles, the BEF again in May - August 1918, as well as the Nivelle offensive, first use of tanks by the French, AEF in 1918 etc. etc.

It also has my favourite monument on the W Front - Paul Landowski's magnificent 'Les Fantomes' to the Marne 1918 a few miles S of Soissons. The view from the top of the hill behind (The Butte the Chalmont) is magnificent.

The region is still quiet and unspoiled. There is good food to be had in Reims, and the local plonk isnt bad either. Laon is a good alternative as a base as it is a fascinating old town.

Family connections with the 'Big two' aside, the Aisne is my favourite. I know that there is at least one other on the forum who will back me up ...

[David_Blanchard]

I fully agree with agree with Charles. The views along the Chemin des Dames looking to Reims especially in the autumn are majestic.

There are few British War Cems to compare with Vendresse set in a remote tranquil valley between the plateau of the Chemin des Dames and the Aisne river.

I would also recommend the Mecure Hotel at Chamouville, a little pricey but the early morning views across the lake are worth it.

The wine from the chateau at Craonnelle is superb, its not champagne but its nearly as good , and very cheap in comparison.

The Caverne de Dragon Museum is not to everybodies taste, but a good stopping off point for a coffee.

I would also recommend a visit to the 'ancient' village of Craonne, devastated in the war, is now a memorial garden. The Bois des Buttes, behind the village of La Ville aux Bois, scene of the stand by the Devons on the 27th May 1918, has many vestiges of the war, and unexplored tunnels.

Laon, occupied by the Germans for most of the war, is a medieval hilltop fortress with an impressive cathedral and plenty of good eateries off the main square. Not Ypres, thankfully not Albert, possibly the Arras of the Chemin des Dames battlefields.

Soissons is a functional French town in many respects, saved by the cathedral and the British memorial to the missing of the 1918 battlefields, designed by Eric Kennington.

[Michelle Young]

I have to say thet the Aisne area is delightful, and agree that Vendresse is beautiful, especially in Autumn, with all the cxolours. A bit further afield, the cemeteries at Buzancy and Marfaux are stunning.

Has anyone talked about the Loos battlefield, not pretty, but extremely interesting, with not many visitors.

Michelle

[stevehowarth]

Ypres v. Somme

From the point of view of memorials and cemeteries, I would always choose Ypres. Tyne Cot never fails to move me, or the school parties I have taken there. I'm afraid, for me,Thiepval does't quite have the same effect. Architecturally, I find the Thiepval memorial slightly ugly, particularly when compared to Menin Gate.

Then again, where would I ideally like to be for a centenary visit? In front of Serre, 7.30 am 2016!