5th Leicestershire

[Guest caty]

This is my first go on the forum. I hope someone can help. I'm at a disadvantage because I'm very ignorant about military things. However.....

I'm trying to find out as much as possible about my Grandfather, Pte Maurice Whitehouse Hammond, who died in 1975 when I was 20.

I started with a wonderful, long letter that he wrote to his family on April 21st, 1917.

"We have just come out of the front line, after being in it 3 weeks and 4 days."

"Our regiment had to attack and capture 2 villages, you have read both names in the paper...We captured both, tooka few prisoners ....they shelled us to blazes. We stuck it and consolidated the ground, which the other regiments hadn't done. We were stuck in this heap of bricks and mortar for about a fortnight.

He was one of 4 despatch riders.

"A day or two after this, 2 other battalions tried to take a chalk pit where the Germans were, and a village and some rifle pits. They couldn't take them so the 5th Leicesters went up....We went up and took all 3 places.....and we were congratulated by the Army corps command. I think we were the only battalion, and I know for a fact the only one in our brigade, the Lincolns and other Leicesters tried and failed."

I've found contemporary newspaper maps of the Arras area in an album, so assume this all links up. I have Monty's medals (victory and british) and medal roll. Reg no. 5497 and 241976. I believe this puts him in the TF. I have his sodier service book which shows that he enlisted 11.1.16 and demobbed 26.5.19. He was in Colgne at the end of the war.

That's what I know so far! I intend to go to Kew to see if there's anything there, though I know there may well be nothing.

My aim is to go to France with my family this summer to visit the area. Is there anything more I can do to find out more precisely where he was? In his albums are about a dozen postcards of Ypres, sent from him in the 1920's. It seems very likely that he fought there too.

The 5th Leicesters seemed to turn into the 11th at some point, which is confusing.

Sorry this is a bit long and rambling. I'd appreciate and clarification or suggestions as to what to do next.

Thanks.

[Andrew Hesketh]

Welcome to the forum Caty.

Your Grandfather's Medal Index Card is here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=7

If you check the relevant parts of the mother site on how to research soldiers you'll discover heaps of good advice of what to do next. It's all here: http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/genealogists.htm

Relevant information about the Leicester's is here: http://www.1914-1918.net/leicesters.htm As you will see the 5th were indeed territorials.

[Guest caty]

Welcome to the forum Caty.

Your Grandfather's Medal Index Card is here: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...1&resultcount=7

If you check the relevant parts of the mother site on how to research soldiers you'll discover heaps of good advice of what to do next. It's all here: http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/genealogists.htm

Relevant information about the Leicester's is here: http://www.1914-1918.net/leicesters.htm As you will see the 5th were indeed territorials.

[Guest caty]

Thanks for quick reply. I have actually looked at all 3 sites you mention. I don't know what to do next to find out more. Also, I don't understand the connection between the 5th leicesters, 59th division and 177th brigade (ignorance again!).

[dave ricketts]

Caty,

The main site has information on Army organistion. In summary, the Leicestershire Regiment had a number of Battalions, and until 1918 four battalions were formed into a Brigade. (In 1918 this was reduced to three battalions per brigade, due to a shortage of manpower.) A number of brigades were grouped together as a Division.

On the mother site you can look up the Divisions, given a number. The 1/5th Battalion were part of 46th Division, whilst 2/5th Battalion were part of 59th Division.

The matter of the 11th Battalion arises because your grandfather must have been transferred to them - the 5th Leicesters weren't part of the Army of Occupation, but the 11th Battalion were. The 11th were also a pioneer battalion - trained infantry, but with engineering skills to dig trenches and build railways, etc.

Your grandfather was probably transferred in 1918 to the 11th, when the 2/5th was disbanded. However, he could have been transferred earlier if he was sick, or wounded, as you didn't necessarily go back to your original units.

At Kew, you can at least see which units your GF served in, by consulting the Medal Roll, if his service record doesn't exist. Once you've done that, you can look at the War Diaries for those units, to see where they went.

Good luck with your search.

Dave

[Ciaran Byrne]

On a side note, when the 5th Royal Irish Lancers were in the line at Gillemont Farm in 1917 they were attacked by a strong force of Germans who forced them out of their positions. They counterattacked and managed to push the Germans back to their own lines. Whilst they were clearing a section of trench a party of lancers came across a number of unidentified men. When challenged as to who they were, they replied "5th Leicesters" in very heavily accented English. The lancers took no chances and threw a few bombs at them which soon dislodged them. Evidently, they had seen the "5L" shoulder badge on the lancers uniform and assumed wrongly that they were up against the 5th Leicesters.

[Andrew Hesketh]

Ciaran - great anecdote!