snailybailey Posted 29 January , 2006 Share Posted 29 January , 2006 Excuse my ignorance as I'm new to the research game and unsure about the 'hierarchy' of rank but can any member explain what the position of 2nd lieutenant was? and did that make them an official Officer rank?Actually a full explanation from private upwards would be very useful! Cheers Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecnorwell Posted 29 January , 2006 Share Posted 29 January , 2006 Ranks in the British Army Commissioned Officer ------------------------- Field Marshal General Lieutenant General Major General Brigadier Colonel Lieutenant Colonel Major Captain Lieutenant Second Lieutenant Non Commissioned officers and other ranks -------------------------------------------------- Warrant officer first class Warrant Officer Second Class Sergeant Major Staff Sargeant Sergeant Corporal Lance Corporal Private Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snailybailey Posted 29 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2006 Thanks for the info, very useful Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveBrigg Posted 30 January , 2006 Share Posted 30 January , 2006 A Second Lieutenant would usually be in command or second in command of a platoon, but in times of battle could command a company. They had the highest likelihood of being killed, due to relative inexperience of trench life if not commissioned from the ranks, and because they were expected to lead from the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snailybailey Posted 30 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 30 January , 2006 A Second Lieutenant would usually be in command or second in command of a platoon, but in times of battle could command a company. They had the highest likelihood of being killed, due to relative inexperience of trench life if not commissioned from the ranks, and because they were expected to lead from the front. Cheers again for this info...I was researching a 2nd Lt KIA aged just 19. Not sure if this is unusually young for this rank? Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin astill Posted 30 January , 2006 Share Posted 30 January , 2006 Excuse my ignorance as I'm new to the research game and unsure about the 'hierarchy' of rank but can any member explain what the position of 2nd lieutenant was? and did that make them an official Officer rank?Actually a full explanation from private upwards would be very useful! Cheers Glyn It is interesting to note the original meanings of words. Lieutenant means 'deputy' from the Old French word - as in the term 'in lieu'. In this case deputy to the 'captain' or 'leader' (from the latin meaning 'head'). We talk of 'Captains of Industry' or of Generals as being great 'captains). And, of course, in the navy (Merchant and Royal), Captains can mean rank as well as the bod in charge of a little tramp steamer or a mighty battleship. Some important folk would be 'Lieutenants' (Lt. Col. deputy to the Colonel, Lord Lieutenant deputy to the Sovereign etc.) Regards Edwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 30 January , 2006 Share Posted 30 January , 2006 "I was researching a 2nd Lt KIA aged just 19. Not sure if this is unusually young for this rank?" Glyn As they so, it all depends - being the least experienced or most junior officer did not always make you the youngest; it depended on the type of unit. Those in Pals units tended to be older; some 1915 volunteers from school were 19 years old. As the Army started to commission more soldiers from the ranks (ie after 1916) they tended to be older However there were 19 year old subalterns serving post war, during WW2 and all post war conflicts. Several of my friends left Sandhurst at 19 having down 6 months training after completing their A levels - nowadays it is much less common but still technically possible Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 30 January , 2006 Share Posted 30 January , 2006 Didn't Aurel offer an explanation on the difference between 1st and 2nd Lts and their role in the Belgian Army? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob B Posted 30 January , 2006 Share Posted 30 January , 2006 The current situation is that upwards of 75% of all young potential officers going through Sandhurst are graduates and the average age is now over 24 (Harry is one of the youngest at 22). In 1976 when I went through most were school leavers and after the SMC course many were still only 18/19 on commisioning. Cheers, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted 30 January , 2006 Share Posted 30 January , 2006 I was wondering how come there is no Sergeant Major Rank any more ?. I had Company Sergeant Majors and Regimental Sergeant Majors (GOD) and c.q.m.s.m.. They were WO 1 & WO 11 but were referred to as Sergeant Major and my nephew is a Sergeant Major now h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 30 January , 2006 Share Posted 30 January , 2006 Your problem here is that the post did not give a 'freeze frame' snapshot of 1914 - 1918, and also confused rank with appointment. I hesitate to step in and correct, particularly as the use of 'Search' should see you straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ressmex Posted 30 January , 2006 Share Posted 30 January , 2006 WO1 = Regimental Sergeant Major / Tecnical Warrant Officer ( Royal coat of arms worn on the right sleeve ) WO2 = Company, Squadron, Battery Sergeant Major ( who wears a plain crown on his right sleeve as his badge of rank as opposed to other WO2's whose badge of rank is a crown surrounded by laurels ) All are Known as Sir to lower ranks and mister to officers. TOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 31 January , 2006 Share Posted 31 January , 2006 Yes but this is NOW, not 14-18. 14-18 much more complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ressmex Posted 31 January , 2006 Share Posted 31 January , 2006 Yes but this is NOW, not 14-18. 14-18 much more complicated. Not really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 31 January , 2006 Share Posted 31 January , 2006 Really. Let me explain. Line Infantry only. 4 Aug 1914. All badges worn on both sleeves of service dress throughout war [use of other forms of dress discontinued except for Foot Guards]. 4 company organisation not fully implemented in so far as ranks, badges and pay were concerned. No WO I or WO II at that time. WOs were RSM badge of crown [RSM title only needed [although in colloquial use] rather than SM after AO 210/14 when CSM title introduced]; RQMS title only needed rather than QMS when CQMS introduced AO 210/14, badge four chevrons point up lower cuff with 8 pointed star above; CSM and CQMS remained as CSgts with extra pay, crown over 3 chevrons point down upper arm. Ranks and appointments below unaffected, and the only other WO was Bandmaster with unchanged Wreath lyre and crown badge.. AO70/1915 introduced two grades of WO both with new badges, WO I for RSM with Royal Arms, WO II for RQMS and CSM both with crown only [sic]. CQMS remained as previously. Bandmaster WO I but retained his badge of appointment. AO309/1918 allotted a new distinctive badge of appointment for RQMS, placing his crown within a wreath. No other changes within the infantry. Further reference: JSAHR Special Publication Badges of WO and NCO Rank by Major N Dawnay. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted 31 January , 2006 Share Posted 31 January , 2006 Are Warrant Officers NCOs? I remember being pulled up by the Adjutant for referring to Warrant Officers as Non Commissioned Officers; they held a Warrant rather than a Commission I was told. That makes three groups then: Commissioned, Warranted (?) and Non-Commssioned (although I'm not sure this makes sense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MParnham Posted 31 January , 2006 Share Posted 31 January , 2006 You may be intersted to know that my wifes grandfather brother was a 2nd Lieut in the R.F.A. (129th Battery)at 17. He died of wounds on the 15th June 1915 - 1 week after his 18th birthday. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 31 January , 2006 Share Posted 31 January , 2006 Are Warrant Officers NCOs? I remember being pulled up by the Adjutant for referring to Warrant Officers as Non Commissioned Officers; they held a Warrant rather than a Commission I was told. That makes three groups then: Commissioned, Warranted (?) and Non-Commssioned (although I'm not sure this makes sense). I think that WOs are not commissioned officers and neither are they non-commisioned officers. They are warrant officers. Bless all the sergeants and WO1s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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