KateJ Posted 29 January , 2006 Share Posted 29 January , 2006 I'm looking for more information about the fishing trawler Linnet(t). It was sunk on 1 November 1914. I've got details (where built, size, ownership etc) from the Mercantile Navy List & Maritime Directory for 1914/15 but can't find out where it was sunk and how many people were lost. Any help would be greatly received. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 29 January , 2006 Share Posted 29 January , 2006 Info from Dittmar & Colledge. A wee bit caution here. HMT LINNET 142 tons launched 1887, was requisitioned June 1915 and served till July 1918 as a Boom Defence Vessel and Fleet Trawler. Her port number was A43 which means she was registered in Aberdeen. There is also a LINNET listed as being requisitioned for fishery but released as unsuitable - no dates given. What info on the sinking do you have? Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 29 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2006 The info I have is that a local man died on the Linnet(t) 1 November 1914. I can't find anything on the register "Lloyds War Losses – The First World War, Casualties to shipping through enemy causes 1914-1918". I've got the following from "Mercantile Navy List & Maritime Directory 1914 and 1915". Official number 110939 Name Linnet International Code signal R.M.J.Q Port & Year Registered Grimsby 1900 Where built Hull When built 1900 Material Steel Length 115 & 3/10ths feet Bredth 21 & 5/10ths feet Depth of hold 11 & 2/10ths feet Net tonnage 72 Gross tonnage 200 Horse power of engines & description of propeller 52Sc Owner/part owner Pioneer Steam Fishing Co, Lim, Grimsby Manager: Geo. E J Moody, same address Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 29 January , 2006 Share Posted 29 January , 2006 GY.1142 Linnet Missing since December 1914. W. Wright. | Albert Ormond (26). | T. Fenwick. | S. Robinson. | H. Dossett.| T. Ellerby. | A. Hurley. | I. Platford. | J. Simerson. | J. Hearing. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/grimsby.trawlers/l.htm is this her? gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 29 January , 2006 Share Posted 29 January , 2006 heres 1 of them and your dates are correct HEARING, JOHN Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Steward Regiment: Mercantile Marine Unit Text: Steam Trawler "Linnet" (Grimsby) Age: 34 Date of Death: 01/11/1914 Additional information: Husband of Mrs. Hearing, of 185, Barcroft St., Cleethorpes. Born at Middlesbrough. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 29 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2006 Strange, my lad doesn't appear on the list of missing. This is him Name: SAMS, FRANK EDWARD Initials: F E Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Apprentice Regiment: Mercantile Marine Unit Text: Steam Trawler "Linnett" (Grimsby) Age: 19 Date of Death: 01/11/1914 Additional information: Son of Edith Emily Archer (formerly Sams), of Broadway, Dunmow, Essex. Born at Dunmow, Essex. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 29 January , 2006 Share Posted 29 January , 2006 try contacting Naval Historical Branch, 24 Store, PP20, Main Road, HM Naval Base, Portsmouth, PO1 3LU. They were great to me a few years back even finding notices of a drifters loss in the newspapers. gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 29 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2006 Thanks Gareth - I'll drop them a letter. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 29 January , 2006 Share Posted 29 January , 2006 Kate, The way you get a war loss, especially involving a ship disappearing, in 1914 off the English east coast is via a mine hit. German cruisers conducted a number of minelaying raids quite near the coast. Likely the most signifciant of these for the case you're interested in is a field off the Humber laid in late August by SMS Nautilus. The light cruiser Stralsund laids mines off Yarmouth and Lowestoft in early Novmeber 1914, which would be a possibility if Linnett was operating that far south. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 29 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2006 Thanks Michael. The other vessel I'm interested in is the Hellenic which was sunk by a mine in 1915 at the location shown below. This also was a Grimsby fishing vessel owned by the same company as the Linnet. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 29 January , 2006 Share Posted 29 January , 2006 Kate, Hellenic is a simpler case, as we have a location of loss. She sank in a mine field laid by the German light cruisers Stralsund and Strassburg on April 17, 1915. (Hellenic sank on May 8, 1815 with the loss of three lives.) Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 29 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2006 Hellenic is a simpler case, as we have a location of loss. She sank in a mine field laid by the German light cruisers Stralsund and Strassburg on April 17, 1915. (Hellenic sank on May 8, 1815 with the loss of three lives.) Michael - thanks for the additional info in the Hellenic - I didn't know about the Stralsund and the Strassburg. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 30 January , 2006 Share Posted 30 January , 2006 It is interesting that neither Hellenic or Linnet are included in British Vessels Lost at Sea. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 30 January , 2006 Share Posted 30 January , 2006 Hellenic is in BVLAS on page 102. Linnet isn't included though, but that's not necessarily that significant. BVLAS only lists vessels believed sunk by enemy cause as per the end of war British understanding. Linnett is one of those cases that could go either way — possible war loss or maritime casualty. Until the wreck is found, we won't know for sure. She was likely lost sufficiently far from shore that finding and identifying her is rather unlikely. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 30 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 30 January , 2006 Would the fate of the Linnet be recorded any where else? I've tried "Lloyds War Losses – The First World War, Casualties to shipping through enemy causes 1914-1918" and it's not in there. I've also tried "Mercantile Navy List & Maritime Directory" for 1914 and details of the vessel is there but not its fate. I work very near the Guildhall library in London which has the above two registers. Is there any other register I can try? Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 30 January , 2006 Share Posted 30 January , 2006 Thanks for the info. on the Hellenic, Michael, my eyes must have been tired. Are you able to exclude the Linnet from cruiser or torpedoboat attack? Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 30 January , 2006 Share Posted 30 January , 2006 David, I can't with absolute certainty exclude a torpedo boat or cruiser action (I haven't examine their KTBs), but I find it exceedingly unlikely. In 1914, such an action would have resulted in a stop and scuttle with the crew becoming prisoners. The fact that there's nothing in any of the sources to suggest such an outcome, makes me think that that isn't the answer. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 31 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2006 So is it looking likely that it was a mine? Is there anywhere else I could look to find out roughly where the vessel was? Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 31 January , 2006 Share Posted 31 January , 2006 So is it looking likely that it was a mine? Is there anywhere else I could look to find out roughly where the vessel was? At this stage, I would say it is looking as if the ship disappeared. It might of hit a mine or it might simply have sprung a leak and sank or foundered in a storm. I can image two avenues of research that might give you more insights. The first would be any newpaper clippings about the ship disappearing. The second would of an inquiry into the loss. I'm not familiar with where such reports are currently located (held under Board of Trade at Kew perhaps?). Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 31 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2006 At this stage, I would say it is looking as if the ship disappeared. It might of hit a mine or it might simply have sprung a leak and sank or foundered in a storm. I can image two avenues of research that might give you more insights. The first would be any newpaper clippings about the ship disappearing. The second would of an inquiry into the loss. I'm not familiar with where such reports are currently located (held under Board of Trade at Kew perhaps?). Best wishes, Michael Thanks Micheal. I haven't quite got to the local newspaper for this period but it is on my hit list. I tried the Times Online but there wasn't anything there. Gareth, your post number #4 quotes a website that's got a list of the casulaties from the Linnet (but excludes my lad). Have you any idea where this info comes from? The men mentioned tie up with the CWGC except with the ommision of my lad. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 1 February , 2006 Share Posted 1 February , 2006 Michael, I agree that stop and sink was the norm as far as fishing boats were concerned right through the war, but occasionally they were shelled, eg 16th December 1914, the 40 ton British Constance was shelled by surface ships off Hartlepool. 2nd May 1915, the 146 ton British Cruiser was shelled and sunk by U 41, 50 miles SE from Aberdeen. So the Linnet could have been sunk by a passing surface vessel. Equally, or perhaps more so, a mine or natural causes remain as possibilities Best wishes David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 9 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2006 try contacting Naval Historical Branch, 24 Store, PP20, Main Road, HM Naval Base, Portsmouth, PO1 3LU. I wrote to them about the two vessels and today have received their reply as below: "I can find nothing in our sources that refers to the loss of the Grimsby fishing vessle LINNET which appears to have been by marine causes. She was not taken up by Admiralty. Lloyd's Maine Collection, Guildhall Library, may be able to advice about information on the sinking of the LINNET [tried Guildhall Library - nothing] The trawler HELLENIC is recorded by Lloyd's War Losses: The First World War Casualties to Shipping through Enemy Causes 1914-1918" [researched this at Guildhall Library] [........]. She too was a civilian vessel engaged in fishing, and we have no further information about her loss." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 10 March , 2006 Share Posted 10 March , 2006 Hi Kate, I cannot tell you much more about the "Linnet" but in David Boswell's "Sea Fishing Apprentices of Grimsby" your Frank Edward Sams (Indentured 12/4/1910) is listed: "Supposed drowned 1 Nov. 1914 S.S. LINNET missing. He is also listed in the Index to the Registers Sea Going Apprentices of Grimsby: Name: SAMS Frank Edward Date Indentured: 12 Apr 1910 ref, number/ Vol/page: 208 / 1 / 12 / 291 The reference, number Vol,12 and page 291 are where his details are recorded in the Registers of Sea Going Apprentices of Grimsby 1879 - 1937, (Hardly any apprentice records exist prior to this). The registers are held at the North East Lincolnshire Archives, records vary, some with much detail, and others only very brief comments. If you are interest there is more info about the Registers on my website. Access to the Archives has been reduced to weekday mornings 10am to 12.30pm due to cut backs. If you want me to look him up on my next visit, please let me know and I will add him to a growing lookup list! Cheers: Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KateJ Posted 12 March , 2006 Author Share Posted 12 March , 2006 Hi Terry Thanks for looking him up. I'm also looking for Ernest C Freshwater (died on board Hellenic 8 May 1915). Any information you can find for me about these two boys would be much appreciated. They are commemorated on Great Dunmow's war memorial. They were both boys from Dunmow workhouse who (with others) were sent to Grimsby to become fishermen to better themselve and escape the poverty of the workhouse. Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Munson Posted 12 March , 2006 Share Posted 12 March , 2006 Hi Kate, Boswell’s ‘Lost List of Grimsby Vessels 1800 - 1960’ Page 42 8 May 1915 HELLENIC (S.T. 133) Mined 98 miles E. by S. of Spurn Point. - (One of 87vessels lost in 1915!) Index to the Registers of Sea Going Apprentices of Grimsby 1879 - 1937 Name:.......................... FRESHWATER Ernest Cecil Date Indentured: ......... 03 Jul 1911 Ref, number/ Vol/page:.. 208 / 1 / 12 / 362 ......and in Boswell’s ‘Sea Fishing Apprentices of Grimsby’ - ERNEST CECIL FRESHWATER ( 3.7.1911) Supposed drowned. Ex HELLENIC 8 May 1915. Vessel blown up by a mine. I’ve added him to the list! Cheers: Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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