Artillery Sound Ranging

[Guest glenbak]

Good Evening All,

This is my first attempt at posting i hope its ok?

Can anybody give me any information on the science of flash spotting and sound ranging an artillery piece in

[gporta]

Glenback,

In his recent "Call To Arms", Charles Messenger devotes a sound number of paragraphs to the subject, while talking about new weapons, or new developments around old weapons during WW1 (I found the issue very inteesting, which is remarkable as I have never had a particular interest in artillery!)... In short it can be said that during the period, those techniques evolved considerably. I'll go find the book -if I can find the right shelf- and check if there is any mention of sources/bibliography...

Gloria

[Neil Mackenzie]

Glen.

David Horner's book 'The Gunners - a history of Australian artillery' is one of a number of WW1 books I have had for a while but never actually read.

However, he does say with refrence to the Somme (p120):-

"The location of enemy targets was improved by the introduction of two techniques - sound ranging and flash spotting. Sound ranging relied on placing a number of microphones along a base line and calculating the distance to the enemy guns from the intervals in time it took for the sound to arrive at the different locations........Flash spotting involved the observation of the flashes from enemy guns to locate their position. It was only effective when all observers concentrated on the one target at the same time."

I can add no more unfortunately. In my view the role of artillery in WW1 is widely under appreciated - largely due to the very limited amount written about it.

Neil

[bmac]

If you can locate a copy of Sir Martin Farndale's 'History of the Royal Regiment of Artillery, Western Front 1914-18' there is a six page description of the development of sound ranging by Sir Lawrence Bragg who was responsible for developing the British systems. Goes into some detail and is an interesting read.

[ian turner]

Glen,

Interestingly, the WW1 techniques used for sound detection were the basis for post-war research into aircraft

detecting sound ranging equipment, which was tried out along the south coast of England, during the 20's and 30's. The massive concrete sound reflectors remain still at Dungeness.

The collation and reporting sytems developed during this period led onto WW2 radar control techniques, brought into vital effect during the Battle of Britain.

If I remember correctly, during WW1 an officer (involved in gunfire detection) noted the flapping of his tent in response to the concussion of artillery fire, and developed this into the electronic recording of gunfire by converting the concussion waves into electric impulses.

Ian

[bmac]

Sound ranging was first employed by the French and German armies. French experiments were witnessed by some BEF sappers, one of whom was a Col Winterbotham and he pressed for similar work to be done for the BEF. Rather typically the RA would have nothing to do with it but supposed if an officer for whom they had no other use was employed on it they might as well get on with it. 2nd Lt W L Bragg (later Sir Lawrence Bragg and then a member of a Territorial Horse Artillery battery for which he was singularly ill-fitted) was summoned by the head of M15 (Col Hedley) and told to go to France, collect a French sound ranging kit and experiment with it.

The French developed three systems one of which, designed by Lucien Bull of the Institut Marey, Paris was the one which Bragg developed.

The incident to which Ian refers occurred at Bragg's team's billet at La Clytte just south of Ypres. There they noted, in the winter of 1915, a jet of very cold air that came through the gaps in the tarred-paper walls which made up their billet when a gun was fired. This occurred some way along the development path of the Bull system.

As mentioned, a full explanation of the development and technology involved is in the appendix in Sir Martin Farndale's book which I strongly recommend to anyone interested in artillery. Sadly, though it is very difficult to obtain - and, no, I am not going to sell mine!

[Chris_Baker]

There's an excellent book on this subject:

Innes, J.R. Flash Spotters and Sound Rangers (London: George Allen & Unwin, 1935)

[Terry_Reeves]

As mentioned above, J R Inne's book is a good introduction to the subject. It was re-published in 1997 in a limited edition and not only covers the technical side of the subject, but also, as the sub-title says, covers "How they lived worked and fought". Try Selous books of Aldershot who have a web-site.

Terry Reeves

[Guest glenbak]

Good evening all,

Have just logged on and i am amazed at the amount of response and help that i got regarding my first post about artillery sound ranging.

I would like to thank all that replied back and it looks like a trip to the library is in order.

Thanks again

Glenbak.

[Howard]

Good Evening All,

This is my first attempt at posting i hope its ok?

Can anybody give me any information on the science of flash spotting and sound ranging an artillery piece in

Peter Chasseaud's book "Artillery's Astrologers: A History of British Survey and Mapping on the Western Front, 1914-18" covers several aspects of flash spotting etc. especially how it relates to trench maps and hence how to shoot back.

Howard

ISBN: 0951208020

[Nathan Greenfield]

Canadians like to claim some of the glory in for perfecting flash spotting and sound ranging for Major Andy McNaughton, a McGill University engineer who, before the war, was part of the National Research Council.

A good layman's introduction to both can be found in Pierre Berton's book VIMY.

Cheers,

Nathan