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[Guest suz_1e]

Well I have on my desk a copy of the documents I paid to view online. the card is correct but the quality is not easy for a land lubber to understand of info on.Is there anyone that can decypher it for me please?

thank you one and all

love Suz

[J T Gray]

If you search this section for "Victory" you should find some clarification (?) on the entry for Victory - on the laft, with the names of "ships" he served on. Although at the time your man served HMS Victory was still afloat, and to this day is still technically a commisioned warship, you will find that a number of shore-stations and training schools, usually suffixed by a number eg "Victory II", were called Victory. Its possible he may have been attached to the old ship herslef but I suspect he was at a shore station at Portsmouth.

You may have to supply a slightly larger scan - it's a bit of a b to read!

ADrian

[Guest suz_1e]

If you search this section for "Victory" you should find some clarification (?) on the entry for Victory - on the laft, with the names of "ships" he served on. Although at the time your man served HMS Victory was still afloat, and to this day is still technically a commisioned warship, you will find that a number of shore-stations and training schools, usually suffixed by a number eg "Victory II", were called Victory. Its possible he may have been attached to the old ship herslef but I suspect he was at a shore station at Portsmouth.

You may have to supply a slightly larger scan - it's a bit of a b to read!

I

ADrian

Thankyou I will search for victory.Am I wrong in thinking they would train on a model of the victory ?

It was out the front of Greenwich for boys to learn on

[John Milner]

Suz

The last two names look like Jupiter and Swiftsure respectively.

Nelson's Victory is a first rate man of war, made of wood with masts and sails and very different from the war ships of WW1. It is in Portsmouth Dockyard, the ship tied up at Greenwich is the Tea Clipper Cutty Sark.

Regards

John Milner

[Guest suz_1e]

Thanks for the swiftsure youn are dead right I could not make it out Have been looking at royal naval website Would you say the first ship listing one is the duke of Wellington with the name shortened? . have another look i have enlarged it a bit. can you see what the badges are ?

.

I am trying to find photos to compile a journal. so far have pic of jupiter

Thanks

Suz

edited_truckle.doc

[John Milner]

Suz

Ships = HMS Duke of Wellington II - Shore/Training Establishment.

HMS Excellent - RN Gunnery School.

HMS Victory - RN Barracks Portsmouth, now called HMS Nelson.

HMS Jupiter and Swiftsure.

He was an ERA = Engine Room Artificer, and by the time he joined Swiftsure he was an ERA 2nd Class = Petty Officer.

Character/Conduct assessment was VG = Very Good.

Regards

John Milner

[Guest suz_1e]

Thankyou Very much for you perseverance! I spent hours and thanks for the vessel name change info . I was thinking ERA was the name of an officer that was superior!

That makes sense. I dont suppose you could identify the badges? G1 10/08/05 andG1 9/8/10 are they cap ones made of material

love Suz

[John Milner]

What badges do you mean?

John

[Guest suz_1e]

Hi there, just picked up your message . sorry. In the 5th column it has a title of "badges" I am not familiar with the terminology of naval affairs so I presumed this meant a cloth badge.there are two dates and a line with a number 2 underneath .Please could you explain this for me?

Thanks

Suz

[John Milner]

Suz

The badges will be Good Conduct Badges, in this case two. On the upper left sleeve of his uniform jacket he would have the two crossed anchors with a crown above which is the rate badge for Petty Officer with two stripes underneath which signify 6 years good conduct.

If I remember correctly a good conduct badge was awarded every three years in those days, it is every four years nowadays.

Regards

John

[RNCVR]

Suz,

Yr man was an ERA (Engine Room Artificer) - & he made Artificer Engineer (a warrant Officer rank) that I can tell from reading the "Officers section" notation on his SR.

So he should have a Warrant Officer's SR in ADM 196 series.

Its very hard to make out but there should be a date there when he was promoted to Art Eng.

Concerning his CGB's (Good Conduct Badges) - GCB's were honorary for ERA's - they wore no GC badges or badges of rank or rate. A Chief ERA wore the three sleeve buttons on his cuffs tho.

Bryan

[RNCVR]

Suz -

Looks like he was promoted to Art Eng on 30 Sep 1910. So his WWI service will be in the ADM 196 series.

a further amplification of his GCB's - altho ERA wore no badges they did receive the additional pay for their badges as did regular ratings, & that is why their award dates appear on their SR's.

Bryan

[Jim Maclean]

At the time of this record 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Class ERAs were Chief Petty Officers. It wasn't until 1925 that 4th Class, both acting and confirmed were given the relative rating of Petty Officer (AFO 2859/25).

In 1960 the five classes of Artificer were reduced to three, with 3rd Class becoming a Leading Rate, 2nd Class becoming a Petty Officer and 1st Class remaining a Chief Petty Officer (AFO 1206/60).

[Jim Maclean]

To further clarify, he joined the Navy as a fully skilled man, in this case apparently a coppersmith. His almost immediate grant of 2 good conduct badges would reflect his experience before joining the RN. GCBs were not worn by ERAs simply because a CPO does not wear them. He did receive the pay for the badges and could be deprived of the badges without losing his rate. ERAs did wear wear badges of rank in this case, 1902 all were CPOs and would have worn 'buttons'.

At the time this man joined there was no formal apprenticeship for artificers, that came in Jan 1903. Prior to this all had served exterior apprenticeships as did Mr. Truckle.

At no time has HMS Victory been anything other than the vessel that it now is. Never was it the barracks in Portsmouth now known as HMS Nelson. They were known as Victory (Vicky) Barracks, [b]not [/b] HMS Victory

[RNCVR]

To further clarify, he joined the Navy as a fully skilled man, in this case apparently a coppersmith. His almost immediate grant of 2 good conduct badges would reflect his experience before joining the RN. GCBs were not worn by ERAs simply because a CPO does not wear them. He did receive the pay for the badges and could be deprived of the badges without losing his rate. ERAs did wear wear badges of rank in this case, 1902 all were CPOs and would have worn 'buttons'.

At the time this man joined there was no formal apprenticeship for artificers, that came in Jan 1903. Prior to this all had served exterior apprenticeships as did Mr. Truckle.

At no time has HMS Victory been anything other than the vessel that it now is. Never was it the barracks in Portsmouth now known as HMS Nelson. They were known as Victory (Vicky) Barracks, [b]not [/b] HMS Victory

I agree with what you say Jim, however he did not receive his two GCB's upon entry into the RN.

Truckle ent'd on 11 Aug '02, & recd his 1st GCB on 10 Aug 08 (on time, 3 yrs later) & his 2nd GCB on 9 Aug '10 (again, on time, 8 yrs later) - these two entries appear in the Badges column.

Bryan

[Jim Maclean]

Truckle entered 1902 should have rec'd his first GCB 1905. I'd like to see a better scan of the document. I'm more interested in his rating upon joining, I can't make it out. As usual very difficult to interpret unless you know exactly what you're looking at. Sorry about the comment about the the GCBs, guesswork helps nobody.

[RNCVR]

My mistake Jim - it is '05 - its is hard to make out the dates tho on the scan.

I would say (from what I am able to make out) his rating on entry was Act(ing)ERA 4th class, then he is confirmed on 24 Sep '03, then ERA 3rd cl on 10 Aug '05, then ERA 2nd cl on 9 Aug 09.

He moved up fairly quickly {& no doubt his civilian experience contributed to this} & on 30 Sep '10, or more likely, 1 Oct '10 he is promoted to Artificer Engineer (Warrant rank) - see my post above in ref to this,

Bryan

[Jim Maclean]

I've no idea on the times of advancement in those days, I suppose the best idea that we can get is from docs like these. I know from my days on completing the apprenticeship and being rated 3rd Class, it was only 3 years to 1st Class (Chief) with a clean nose of course. Of course when our man entered he came in directly as a CPO which did little to endear him or the the branch. Making Art. Eng in those days was probably that bit easier as navy trained artificers had only been two years out of their apprenticeships in 1909.