Guest gumbirsingpun Posted 19 January , 2006 Share Posted 19 January , 2006 hi to all i know that the subject the 1/5th Norfolks must have been on the carpet many times,,but what ian hamilton and those two gallipoli veterans had seen has been my cup of tea for the last few days, cos they are different than each other what was that thing ian hamilton and those two gallipoli veterians had seen ?, two gallipoli veterans declared that they had seen the norfolks march into a strange cloud, that engulfed them, then lifted and drifted away, leaving nobody behind, but ian hamilton stated that they had been ordered to charge into the forest, coud oniane put flesh on the bones of what had become of them ? tuna regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 19 January , 2006 Share Posted 19 January , 2006 This is not something I know much about but it has popped up on the forum a couple of times. Have you tried a search? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gumbirsingpun Posted 19 January , 2006 Share Posted 19 January , 2006 yes,, i hae done reserach on them, but the information i have provided so far is not sufficent for me, tuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 19 January , 2006 Share Posted 19 January , 2006 The cloud was explained as a natural phenomena that happened on the peninsula, but was dramatised some 20 years after the event I believe (someone will correct me if I got the timing wrong, but it was a LONG time after I seem to remember reading). They did charge into the forst, as they met a part of the line with less resistance than their flank Btns & burst through the defesive line. They just kept going, bless them. When they cleared the field in the 20's a famous british Officer (A ereverend I think) was present & local farmers told of how theyd discovered 120 or so bodies in the remains of an old shed on their land. He threw them into a ravine from memory. From the pieces they found, some of the Norfolks had apparently been shot through the head. From what I understand, the Turks had a differnet ethos regarding prisoners that early in the war, which pretty much sealed the fate of the surviving Norfolks. Got this from the vanished battalion i think but it was last summer & from the library, so im a bit unclear to be honest!! Sorry its not the fabled romantic version, but the author was pretty convincing as i read the pages, so i tend to go with his perspective. . A sad but good story nonetheless ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted 19 January , 2006 Share Posted 19 January , 2006 Ha ha I know this one......Del Boy and his mate were shot by a Turkish fellow and left behind his old pocket watch? A future Del Boy then sells the pocket watch for a mint and becomes a millionaire.......or did I get that wrong? You can read about the Sandringham Company here: http://user.online.be/~snelders/sand.htm Your if your a Only Fools and Horses fan try here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/onlyfools/ Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 19 January , 2006 Share Posted 19 January , 2006 Hi Two things went wrong for the Norfolks from the start; 1, they were ordered to swing right immediately after they started advancing. This order was not passed onto the 8th Hants and the Suffolks, so a gap opened up in the advancing Brigade line, which became worse as the companies and sections of all three battalions were too green to keep in touch and had different types of terrain to go through. Ordered to advance at almost at the run, they became ragged especially after the Turks started to open up on them in a big way. The Norfolks terrain was the most open. 2, their inexperienced C.O. pushed the Norfolks on too far forward and one company got nearly 300 yards ahead of the rest of the Battalion, which in its turn was 500 yards away and ahead of the Brigade Line. Two Companies were ordered back by their company commanders (ex Boer war vets) to a sunken track, and on this scrape the rest of the Brigade formed their front. By the end all three Battalions of 163 Brigade were muddled up and small groups drifted back to the track as they recovered from the rush and found themselves isolated. The battlefield caught fire and burnt like dry gorse, several men shot the wounded of their own side who could not escape the flames. The column of smoke could be the basis for this part of the myth. It is said that the two New Zealanders who wrote about the strange cloud, could not have seen the position of the Norfolks from where their company was positioned at the time No clear objective or stopping point had been given by Brigade HQ to anybody involved with the advance. Only that they were to advance and clear the ground of snipers. The maps they were given were for ANZAC cove it is said There is no direct evidence that the Turks shot their prisoners, but they were not plaster saints either. When the remains were discovered post war, men of all three Battalions were amongst those discovered. Also the local Turk explained that coming back to his farm in 1916/17 he had "cleared" his land himself of the bodies of the invader by chucking them down a gully. I knew at least two survivors of the attack, and they saw no mystery, only very green troops, inexperienced officers, and some bloody determined Turks. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gumbirsingpun Posted 19 January , 2006 Share Posted 19 January , 2006 thank you all for the replies, tuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Harris Posted 25 January , 2006 Share Posted 25 January , 2006 My Great Uncle George Stanley Miller was one of the lads who "disapeared" on the 12 August 1915 with the 1/5th August, thankfully my Great Grandfather Charles Peter Miller was kept back on the landing beach so survived unlike his brother.. a few years ago Paul Reed & I walked across the ground and an amazing ammount to the original battlefield is still visible. The ravine where the bodies were found (and is always shown with its negative reversed), the collection of farm buildings where the last few of the battalion were holed up proir to their capture are still fire damaged!! It was an incredible day indeed and a trip I will never forget. Below are a couple of photo's left me and right Uncle George who my 5 month old sone is named after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gumbirsingpun Posted 26 January , 2006 Share Posted 26 January , 2006 hi clive, its strange that his name shouldnt be on the GWGC or the SDGW. what unit was he in? regards tuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Harris Posted 26 January , 2006 Share Posted 26 January , 2006 Oh yes he is.... oh no he isnt etc etc etc, MILLER, GEORGE STANLEY Initials: G S Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment: Norfolk Regiment Unit Text: 1st/5th Bn. Age: 29 Date of Death: 12/08/1915 Service No: 2867 Additional information: Son of the late James and Eliza Miller, of Great Yarmouth. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 42 to 44. Memorial: HELLES MEMORIAL He appears on soldiers died as well and is in the Nigel Mcreery book roll of honour at the back, hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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