helen2807 Posted 17 January , 2006 Share Posted 17 January , 2006 Hi all, I have been searching to find out how and where a great-uncle died during the war - always a puzzle because he died after Passchendaele - on 17/11/17, supposedly a quiet time. Today I received the war diary for his unit, 148th MGCoy for November 1917 - absolutely fascinating stuff that raises as many questions as it answers. He was a machine gunner with the 148th MGCoy which was part of the 49th Division. On 10/11/1917 they relieved the 146th MGCoy, moving from Dickebush into line at location J4c where 12 guns were organised into 2 gun batterys and 4 other guns were used as anti-aircraft MGs. In this location they were continually, very heavily shelled with high explosive and gas shells: he was killed by a direct hit on a shelter. The war diary gives location as Ypres Salient (Beclaires) - but I cannot find a location of this name - is it a mistake or an old spelling? Is this the modern Beselare? Has anyone a map showing J4c? The unit was relieved by the 146th MGCoy on 18/11/17 and they then went to Belgian Chateau at H23b. During those 9 days in the line the 148th MGCoy lost 5 men killed and 22 wounded (mostly gassed). I agree these losses are minute compared to the losses during battle, but it has changed my view of a quiet time. Helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatspywar Posted 17 January , 2006 Share Posted 17 January , 2006 Hello Helen, There is a very good chance that Beclaire is Beselare. Beselare is a small village which is part of Zonnebeke. Passendale is a part of Zonnebeke as well. So it's all very near to eachother. Broodseinde (4 October 1917, Battle of Broodseinde) is actually between Beselare and Passendale (very near to Tyne Cot). It is true that the fighting cotinued in the village and a litle beyond it till January 1918. The Battle of Passchendaele officially closed on the 10th, but the fierce fighting continued. Do you have a photograph of your great uncle? Kind regards, Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen2807 Posted 18 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2006 Hi Jan Thanks for the confimation. We have just the one photo of him. Its one of those large photos that were tinted to look like drawings. It's too big to scan so I will try and take a digital photo of it this weekend. I'll send the image to you along with his details Regards Helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gericht 1914 Posted 18 January , 2006 Share Posted 18 January , 2006 Helen. On this extract you can see square J4 ("c" is the bottom left hand square of the larger square) in relation to the frontline of 29th November 1917... Dave. (extract from the "Paths of Glory" website) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gericht 1914 Posted 18 January , 2006 Share Posted 18 January , 2006 Seems that images aren't working on the forum at the moment... ...try this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gericht 1914 Posted 18 January , 2006 Share Posted 18 January , 2006 Ahh! That worked! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugerand Posted 18 January , 2006 Share Posted 18 January , 2006 Helen I dont't think I can help you but your story is very like mine. My Great Uncle was a member of the West Yorks 1/7 Btn, (Leeds Rifles). He was KIA on the 17/11/17(same date as you Gt Uncle) also at Passchendaele and his name is on the Tyne Cott memorial. I havethe war diaries for his btn and as you say it was quiet around that time. There were a group of other soldiers from his btn recorded as killed on that day in different locations. The group had been relieved and in support in shelters on the Anzac Ridge from the 15the so i had conclude that he perhaps died earlier than the 17th but this is when the roll call was taken and the death recorded. I might be wrong. Interestingly the 1/7 Btn moved to Dickebusch on the 20th. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatspywar Posted 18 January , 2006 Share Posted 18 January , 2006 Hi Helen, I look forward to that. you can email me at: archives@passchendaele.be kind regards, Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen2807 Posted 18 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2006 Dave, many thanks for the map it helps a great deal. Sue, your great uncle's unit was with the 146th Brigade of 49th Division. My great uncle's unit was with 148th brigade of the same division. Is it reasonable to suspect they were in the same area and that the brigades and units were moving in and out of the line and supporting each other? The 148th's diary shows they were on the recieving end of heavy shellfire from high explosive and gas shells during this time - on 16th/17th there were hostile aircraft over the lines and the shelling became more intensive amd accurate. I put a transcript of it on Doug Lewis's 'Soldiers Died in the Great war' thread in Documents,Photos,art/Document Repository/Unit histories - check post no 233 Naval & Military Press publish 'West Riding Territorials in the Great War' - it has the history of the 49th division and should give details of the 146th and 148th brigades locations. I haven't bought it ... yet! regards Helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugerand Posted 18 January , 2006 Share Posted 18 January , 2006 Helen Thank you for this information, I could be wrong about his date of death. I have managed to get a copy of the book you mention from the library. I am working my way through it! I have also got the West Yorkshire Regiment in the Great War which is more specific Good luck with your search. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen2807 Posted 19 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2006 Dave do you know what the small blue spots on the map represent? Are they shell craters or burial sites? There are a few in J4c in a couple of semi-circles , and a lot more in J4b which are numbered. I know the 148th MGCoy went back into J4b around 28th Novenber 1917 but the blue spots don't match up to their barrage positions - so what could they be? thanks Helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gericht 1914 Posted 19 January , 2006 Share Posted 19 January , 2006 Dave do you know what the small blue spots on the map represent? Bunkers, dugouts and shelters in British hands. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen2807 Posted 19 January , 2006 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2006 Thanks Dave. regards Helen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Henschke Posted 7 April , 2007 Share Posted 7 April , 2007 Here is another map reference that may help build the picture. On the morning of 10th November, 1917 the Headquarters element of 146th M.G. Coy was located at H.23.b.5.9. Chris Henschke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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